To be annoyed my friends son has kicked a hole in my wall?

[TedOnTheBed]

I have posted about his behaviour before and pretty much told I was being unsupportive. I am not she can not control him, there are no special needs involved he is brat and acts out destroying things and attacking people to get his own way. She says no he goes on a 30-45 minute rampage which ends in him doing something like smashing a tv, phone screen or head butting someone on the nose causing a nose bleed etc etc. she then gives in and he gets what he wants and he INSTANTLY snaps out of the tantrum until he hears the word no again and then it is a repeat. My AIBU is would it be mean to ban a just turned 5 year old from my house? I find his behaviour unbearable and absolutely detest spending anytime with him.

"I never allow children to act like that in my home. I pull them up. If the parents don't like it, they can leave.

Interesting, next time they come for a visit, they manage to play just fine without destroying things."

I think you should go and work as a behaviour expert with all your expertise at managing extreme behaviours.

My ds has autism. I’ve met many many parents if children with autism and other additional needs. And we have the same conversation over and over again. How we were blamed for our children’s behaviour and told we were shit parents.

Op I do believe something else is going on here. I don’t blame you for not wanting the lad in your house after this. As for your friend - I reckon she could be at her wit’s end with it all. I know I was. Be her friend. Support her. Spend time with her without children around. Let her talk. Let her cry. Let her think her way through this.

Additional needs can’t be magicked away. All those strategies that can work for NT children can have the exact opposite for a non-NT child. I’d be helping her push for an assessment. It’s a fight to be heard but the earlier the better. The better she understands her child’s needs the better she can support him. As soon as I stopped trying to force all those ‘normal’ parenting strategies on my son our lives changed for the better. Many parents don’t understand this until it happens to them. I didn’t.

[quote TedOnTheBed]@Cliche87 that sounds tough and I am sure it isn’t nice worrying about the other parents judging you. That is exactly what I have tried not to do with my friend, yes it seems crazy not to have brought the hole up but I was trying to be her friend. These situations are hard for everyone involved, good luck with your son.[/quote]
You can acknowledge how hard it is for her, while also bringing up the issues. But it sounds like you've done that. I have a child who has meltdowns and rages and I would much rather people were honest (but understanding) about the impact of his behaviour, even though I would find it hurtful.

Maybe send her a link to parenting courses in your area as a last hurrah.

Ultimately though it's not your problem to fix, although the hole is!

@TedOnTheBed
This child is FIVE??

This is extremely concerning.
I was expecting you to say he was 14/15, not 5.

Sadly, kids are allowed to get away with a lot these days... ''Discipline'' is a dirty word.
Discipline is firm boundaries, and ''No means NO''

He'll be beating up his mother unless she nips his awful behaviour in the bud. Hard.

And sh should pay for the damage his ''Crotchgoblinnery' has inflicted on your home.

Clearly his needs are not being met but that does not necessarily equal Neuro diversity. I have ADHD and see enough shitty parenting excused as "I think hes ADHD," when zero boundaries/support mechanisms are put in place.

Personally I don't think shit children exist but there is plenty of shit parenting. The idea that poor behaviour equals Neuro diversity is so damaging for ND and NT kids and also means ND kids that don't cause trouble tend to fly under the radar and don't get the support they need.

Even if he has Sen. You don't have to have him at home if you cannot cope with his behaviour. I stopped taking mine out to houses when he kept trying to colour on her wall Not fair on friends no fun for either of us. Better somewhere less destroyable.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

Hell's teeth!

If he's like this at 5 he's going to be dangerous by the time he's 15!

Someone said on a thread once that "Boys who aren't taught "No!" grow into men who don't hear "No".

He's causing pain, injury and damage now and he's still a baby - when he is grown into full strength with a similar attitude he will end up seriously injuring or even killing someone.

Is his mother a single parent? Is he an only child? Just wondering why he is so indulged.

I'd agree. What you have at 5 you will have at 15.

Boys ideally need a good role model to guide them.

A boy that violent and out of control at 5 will be out of control totally as a teen, then a man.

@TedOnTheBed

Don't have him in your home again.
Meet on neutral territory , preferably outdoors.

(he was only one or two and not to be distracted)

Not necessarily if the primary cause is Sen. They can and do grow out of it.

It's your house. You can have whoever you like in it or not.

Tedonthebed
Thanks for the update. Given the fact that his mother clearly allowed him to ruin your wall - you cannot have him or her in your case again.
She is a fool and a useless parent.

Re: the unlikeable/unloveable thing - maybe it is better to characterise the behaviour rather than the child - I think it is fine to find certain behaviour unlikeable/unloveable - and if you have a child who exhibits a lot of unloveable behaviour, that must be incredibly hard for a parent.

But I think it also allows for hope too - if you believe that it’s the behaviour that is wrong, you can also believe that you can help the child change that behaviour.

I think @TedOnTheBed has every right not to want this child in her house - having a 5 year old kick an actual hole in a wall is pretty shocking. But it seemed to me, from reading what she’s written here, she is genuinely concerned about her friend, so meeting her and the kids somewhere like the park or soft play, or her friend’s house, means she can let her dad play with her friend’s dd, while the little boy gets to have fun too, and OP can spend time with her friend, seems like a sensible compromise.

I’m really shocked the mum let him kick your wall in. That is completely unacceptable. Regardless of what the kid is going through, nobody stands by and lets them destroy other peoples homes. And then she didn’t even apologise! Unbelievable.

I think you do have to talk to her about this and explain that because of his behaviour and her lack of action, you can’t have him in your home again.

The really worrying thing is that if he can already do this much damage at 5, what will happen if it is another child who is in his way next time he gets upset?

@SolidGoldBrassiere how about replying to their posts then instead of mine. What a strange and bizarre thing to do.

YANBU. I don't think children are inherently naughty. Some are definitely more challenging than others but more often than not the parents aren't equipped to deal with the behaviour properly and that's why is escalates. I've realised since having DC that parenting plays a much bigger role in children's behavior than anything else. I see it with my friends and family's children and with my own DC - if I'm having a bad week and my parenting is lax it's always reflected back in their behavior. They're so tuned into us. So if he's a brat (and it does sound like it I wouldn't have him around either) then it's his parents who should be the focus of your frustrations not the 5yo child. They're doing him a real disservice and it's quite sad. Could you speak to your friend or is she behind hope? Suggest parenting classes/good websites? AHA parenting was a favourite of mine.

Absolutely no way that you could know there are no SEN. Thats really extreme behaviour for a 5yr old and ive only ever seen this sort of thing with kids who are autistic or have ADHD, but majority of them.wouldnt be diagnosed by 5.

Also its fine to not have him in your house if he damages things.

There are plenty of lazy parents who ignore whatever their kids get up to, around but this level of behaviour is unusual. That should tell people it is unlikely to be just parenting.

While it must be stressful and sad, having a difficult child when you're actively trying everything you can to help him/her, OP's friend isn't helping matters by acting as though nothing happened. She should have apologised and at least offered to pay for repairs as and when she could, even if she expected OP would refuse any money from her. She doesn't seem to care particularly much how her child's poor behaviour is affecting other people.

No, I wouldn't have him back in my house. Meet them elsewhere (park? walks?) or invite the daughter to visit on her own (if/when the two girls are old enough).

Why on Earth didn’t she stop him kicking your wall? Lazy woman, however “nice” in other ways. I’d steer clear for a bit and then invite her daughter to play without her.

I think with his parents splitting up, the change in dynamics and the he trauma of this coupled with his mothers upset is the perfect storm really. And the subsequent going between two houses with different rules and routines. People are too quick to jump to SEN. These things are more often than not a parenting issue, but we minimise these things to spare our fragile egos. Lie to ourselves and others that children are "resilient" they really aren't, they're as fragile as can be. This situation has parenting issue all over it. His dad isn't in his life like he was and his mother lacks consistency and doesn't give him any boundaries - consistency is the number one issue I see with families where things go wrong.

Her reaction or lack thereof is far more concerning than his behaviour and gives some insight as to why he is the way he is.

Most parents would not allow a child behave badly in someone else's home.
They wouldn't stand by while their child kicks a hole in a wall.
They would be 3embarrassed, apologetic and offer to pay.

There are zero consequences for the child and that is a significant contributor to his behaviour.

I would definitely call her out on this. "Jenny, I'm still in shock over what happened last weekend. Josh kicked a hole in our wall, does his behaviour not concern you? Have you spoken to his school or a social worker about what can be done about his behaviour?"

Focus on the behaviour rather than her parenting so it doesn't feel like a personal attack.

Actually we didn’t even really talk about the hole in the wall after he did it they stayed about another hour she brushed over it and I was to embarrassed to bring it up

A 5 year old kicked a hole in the wall an nobody A) stopped him or B) talked about it? 🤔

@Arnia

I think with his parents splitting up, the change in dynamics and the he trauma of this coupled with his mothers upset is the perfect storm really. And the subsequent going between two houses with different rules and routines. People are too quick to jump to SEN. These things are more often than not a parenting issue, but we minimise these things to spare our fragile egos. Lie to ourselves and others that children are "resilient" they really aren't, they're as fragile as can be. This situation has parenting issue all over it. His dad isn't in his life like he was and his mother lacks consistency and doesn't give him any boundaries - consistency is the number one issue I see with families where things go wrong.

I agree with all of this so much. He’s had a lot of upheaval in his young life and he might be angry at his parents without even realising why. There’s a growing body of research challenging the ‘resilient children’ thing . They do have a degree resilience but it’s often over-emphasised to let parents off the hook somewhat.

So difficult. Agree you need to meet elsewhere - but also she needs support with her parenting. Her son may have additional needs, or not - but it's very tricky to tell people how to parent.

No advice really - but reminds me of someone I knew. She was a friend of a friend but we used to meet up at the same toddler groups and activities over the years, so I was on chatting terms, and saw a lot of her son's behaviour first hand, from baby up to about aged 9.

She had various other issues including health related, and was a single Mum with no Dad in the picture. It was never going to be easy, but she had firm views about parenting such as never saying 'no' and co-dependent behaviours which I gather escalated as time went by. Our mutual friend had to drop the friendship due to the boy's behaviour, and violence towards his mother, and felt awful but she couldn't let her own son be party to that. I think the boy may have been diagnosed with Aspergers later on, but he probably wasn't helped by mixed messages and parenting issues that I can't expand on without maybe being identifiable. The last time I saw them was at a school holiday group where the child left the building and wandered back home - aged about 8 or 9, causing panic.

They moved away for a fresh start, but sadly I heard the child was taken into care a few years later as the mother couldn't cope. Heartbreaking for everyone involved.

I suppose what I'm saying is that it may be poor parenting and it may be additional needs, or both - but these things can be very complex! If she is a good friend, please try to be there for her (although not in your house)!

@Sassbott

If this is a close friend then it’s time for an honest chat. You need to tell her that the incident with the hole in the wall was shocking. And you need to see what her response is. Personally I would be saying to the friend ‘listen, something is going on here. I’m here to support you and help. But until we figure out what is happening here, I cannot have your son in my home causing damage and also Injuring himself. Let’s meet in places where he can burn off energy and it’s safer for him.’

Where was she when he was repeatedly kicking a wall? And why was she in the kitchen making a cuppa vs being the one cleaning up the mess?

This