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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think punish him on your own bloody time and give DS his toy back?

532 replies

toddlertantrumishell · 19/02/2022 12:54

DS very favourite toy is his paw patrol tower and all of the characters and cars that park in it. It is all he plays with. Yesterday I was out for the day and DS had lots of tantrums with DH and DS bit him. As punishment DH took his tower and all the cars and characters away from him and has said he can have them back Sunday night when DH gets home if he's been a good boy all weekend.

Of course DS shouldn't be biting, and his tantrums are savage and go on for fucking ages, I get it. But it's midday Saturday and I'm alone with him all weekend and he's doing my absolutely head in. He's done nothing but cry and whine and moan. He won't play it with anything else he's tearing around the house looking for his tower. I cannot deal with the crying anymore and I'm in for an entire weekend of a relentlessly tantrumming toddler, because he's being punished for annoying DH with tantrums?

Aibu to think punish him in your own bloody time and don't make me deal with the reality of it?! I want to give it back just to stop the fucking noise before I really lose it with him myself. I'm pregnant and knackered and honestly he is on my final nerve

OP posts:
velvet24 · 21/02/2022 16:34

@Mirw

Your DH is torturing your child. Your DH is being ridiculous. Get hold of your DH abd find out where the toys us snd give it back. This is not an appropriate punishment for a 3 year old. To show your DH he is wrong, taje away his phone for a couple of dats or his xbox or whatever, his golf clubs snd see how he likes it. He is a complete a*.
Blimey ive seen it all now, torture??!!
hellithurt · 21/02/2022 16:49

@BlondeWidow

Fucking hell that's beyond abusive

Poor kid 😢 This actually brought tears to my eyes 😢

Don't be ridiculous, it's a toy not food and drink!
Devora13 · 21/02/2022 17:25

Don't you just hate it when they enforce something and leave you to deal with the fallout? Poor little love.
He needs to develop cause and effect thinking, and is very young for this. Natural or logical consequences will help with this, not an unrelated, illogical punishment. He won't even remember what it's about. Your DH needs to be patient, there is such a thing developmental stages. We would co-regulate his big feelings when tantrums are happening, 'Wow, I can see this is really hard for you! Do you need a hug? I'm right here when you need one!'
A logical consequence, once he's calm and he and dad have repaired, would be for him to help clean up dad's bite wound, rub some healing gel on it, and perhaps read 'Teeth are not for Biting ' or similar together.

velvet24 · 21/02/2022 17:31

Beyond abusive? come on !!!!

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 21/02/2022 17:35

You need to work as a team.
If your DS grows up with one parent punishing and the other ignoring the punishment then he will play you off against each other like fiddles and his behaviour will get much worse but you and DS father need to discuss this properly like adults.
Its all so easy to get into good cop, bad cop mode especially when you are good cop because your DS will like you more but that is very unhealthy in the long run.

Pumperthepumper · 21/02/2022 17:38

@EdgeOfACoin

For the people who say 'punishment doesn't work', what would you do in the following scenario:
  • Child normally bites when bored and hungry. Parent has learnt to anticipate this and steps in before child can get either bored or hungry by providing food and entertainment. Child has never been punished for biting. Child sees no reason to bite as all needs are being met.
  • Parent and child are in a situation where hunger and boredom are unavoidable. For instance, situations I have been in personally include being at an airport where flights have been delayed at a time when the cafés are either closed or full; a bus on a country lane that is stuck behind a car that has broken down and there is no way around the car; a severely delayed train.
  • What do you do when the young child is bored and hungry because the spare banana has already been eaten and the toy is no longer sufficiently entertaining? What do you do when the biting begins out of boredom and hunger, as the child has never been expected to handle small amounts of boredom or hunger?

I don't yet have a toddler. I'm curious.

What I do when the biting begins out of boredom or hunger having failed to meet their needs? Ask them not to, and distract if possible. Which it always is, draw on the window? Stickers? Play eye-spy? What good would a punishment do when they’ve already bitten by that point?
IForgiveYouPaula · 21/02/2022 17:42

@velvet24

Beyond abusive? come on !!!!
@velvet24 I know right? It’s a miracle social services never took my children away based on what I’m reading. My children are living proof that a punishment does work. They weren’t bad kids at all but like most children they test you on occasion. Never gave an empty threat. Invitations were revoked, DS consoles were confiscated and no desert was given if dinner wasn’t finished. Firm but fair, if I said no I meant it. I’ve raised two well adjusted young adults who know the difference between right and wrong, are respectful and don’t sulk!
IForgiveYouPaula · 21/02/2022 17:47

What I do when the biting begins out of boredom or hunger having failed to meet their needs? Ask them not to, and distract if possible. Which it always is, draw on the window? Stickers? Play eye-spy? What good would a punishment do when they’ve already bitten by that point?

Surely you tell them it’s wrong and if they do it again XYZ will happen. Then if they do it again remind them what they were told and follow through with the consequence (just another word for punishment)

Pumperthepumper · 21/02/2022 17:51

@IForgiveYouPaula

What I do when the biting begins out of boredom or hunger having failed to meet their needs? Ask them not to, and distract if possible. Which it always is, draw on the window? Stickers? Play eye-spy? What good would a punishment do when they’ve already bitten by that point?

Surely you tell them it’s wrong and if they do it again XYZ will happen. Then if they do it again remind them what they were told and follow through with the consequence (just another word for punishment)

Why? They’ve already bitten by that point, the bad behaviour has already happened. They.l can’t change it. How does a punishment make that situation any better?
IForgiveYouPaula · 21/02/2022 18:01

@Pumperthepumper so in my PP I say tell them it’s wrong, I’d like to think you agree with that.
Tell them if they do it again there’s going to be a consequence. They’ve been warned that if they do something horrible and painful to someone else they will either lose a toy, have a time out, miss out on a treat. I genuinely can’t see what the problem is. Are you suggesting you just let them carry on biting with no consequence at all based on the fact that you can’t go back and change it?

Pumperthepumper · 21/02/2022 18:06

[quote IForgiveYouPaula]@Pumperthepumper so in my PP I say tell them it’s wrong, I’d like to think you agree with that.
Tell them if they do it again there’s going to be a consequence. They’ve been warned that if they do something horrible and painful to someone else they will either lose a toy, have a time out, miss out on a treat. I genuinely can’t see what the problem is. Are you suggesting you just let them carry on biting with no consequence at all based on the fact that you can’t go back and change it?[/quote]
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. They have no control over their environment in the airport scenario - so what you’re actually punishing them for is having a lack of control over their own emotions. Age 2. In a situation they have no control over anyway. Because consequences (punishment) won’t change a single thing about that scenario. It’s completely pointless.

IForgiveYouPaula · 21/02/2022 18:29

Well @Pumperthepumper we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I’m not sure how many DC you have nor how old they are but mine have made it into adulthood aware that actions have consequences. The fact that you write What I do when the biting begins out of boredom or hunger having failed to meet their needs? means maybe your method isn’t working.

Pumperthepumper · 21/02/2022 18:32

@IForgiveYouPaula

Well *@Pumperthepumper we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I’m not sure how many DC you have nor how old they are but mine have made it into adulthood aware that actions have consequences. The fact that you write What I do when the biting begins out of boredom or hunger having failed to meet their needs?* means maybe your method isn’t working.
Mine are older too. Why does that mean my method isnt working?

You didn’t say how a punishment improves that scenario.

IForgiveYouPaula · 21/02/2022 18:51

@Pumperthepumper it doesn’t change what has happened, you’re right but it will hopefully prevent it happening again and if not then if as a parent/carer we follow through with the consequence they learn that their behaviour isn’t appropriate. A 2 yr old bites, maybe doesn’t really hurt. A 4 yr old bites it’s going to hurt more and with no punishment if it continues at what point is there a consequence? As I said we’ll have to agree to disagree. You’re happy with your parenting style and I’m happy with mine. I must’ve been doing alright as there was never a case of the biting beginning. I’m leaving the thread now as we’re going round in circles. At the end of the day the father in the OP confiscated a toy, hardly deserving of the criticism he has received. Have a lovely evening.

Burgoo · 21/02/2022 18:57

Hmm this is a really interesting situation and I have a middle ground perspective here. I don't believe blaming your husband is going to be that effective, just as I don't think punishing your child for days on end is going to help either.

Firstly I am curious as to why that particular punishment and the reason for the duration. Your husband may have a valid reason why he thought that was a reasonable consequence and the only way to find out is to ask him. We don't know what his background is, he may very well see that as "normal". That said, I can totally see how utterly frustrating it is when others set consequences and leave you to follow through. It doesn't sound like either of you are on the same page here and that may become an issue as things move forward. It is fine now when your son is less aware but once he hits 6-7-8+ years of age he will see those chinks in the armour and exploit it (as all children do!)

At the same time, I'd really avoid undermining your husband. Why? Because once you give in, it will make it much easier for boundaries to be pushed in the future. That is a one way ticket to a monster child in the future.

From a behavioural perspective ideally you would want to shape the behaviour of your son by removing something he likes for a short time. It MUST happen immediately after the biting. If you do it even a day after they won't make the connection between the behaviour and the consequence. The punishment should be proportionate to the behaviour - a bite, for me, should entail having to not have the toy for an hour at his age. Once you give it back you say "you had this taken away because you bit me and that isn't nice. You can have this back but it goes away if you bite again".

Punishing unreasonably leads to resentment and is not effective in the longer-term. You want to reinforce the positive behaviour (praise, reward) and shape the bad behaviour (short term withdrawal of pleasant things).

This is SO hard, especially if you have had enough of listening to the whining but remember - the tantrums and whining is designed to get what he wants. This is how humans learn to express emotion. I wouldn't punish a tantrum - its a child's way of understanding what works and what doesn't. Punishing a tantrum gives the message a child's inner experience is bad and wrong - this will likely lead to over-control of emotion which is really not a healthy place.

I'm also curious about whether your child understands why he shouldn't bite? Explaining this will help him see the perspective of another person - baring in mind at his age he will have little concept of his behaviour and the impact on others.

Good luck! I try to get a middle ground here. Demonising husband isn't helpful because it will inevitably lead to conflict and misery. And taking the blame yourself is also not helpful because you have every right to express a view.

B

velvet24 · 21/02/2022 19:02

@IForgiveYouPaula

Well *@Pumperthepumper we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I’m not sure how many DC you have nor how old they are but mine have made it into adulthood aware that actions have consequences. The fact that you write What I do when the biting begins out of boredom or hunger having failed to meet their needs?* means maybe your method isn’t working.
Pumperthepumper you are wrong, yes the biting has already happened so you punish for that, so what you are saying is you just ignore that? I have punished my children for things when younger and they are perfectly well adjusted teenagers now. You have to have consequences or this is a disaster for later in life.
velvet24 · 21/02/2022 19:02

Oh and a punishment improves not that scenario perhaps but will prevent it happening again!!

Pumperthepumper · 21/02/2022 19:09

@velvet24

Oh and a punishment improves not that scenario perhaps but will prevent it happening again!!
So you never had to punish for the same thing more than once?
velvet24 · 21/02/2022 19:15

What are you on about?? You are saying no point in punishing as its already happened, that's like someone stealing from a shop and saying ' doesn't matter as its done now ' ....

Yes I may have had to punish more than once for the same thing but most of the time it was resolved quickly as my child knew it was not allowed / appropriate, whats your solution, do nothing?

Pumperthepumper · 21/02/2022 19:19

@velvet24

What are you on about?? You are saying no point in punishing as its already happened, that's like someone stealing from a shop and saying ' doesn't matter as its done now ' ....

Yes I may have had to punish more than once for the same thing but most of the time it was resolved quickly as my child knew it was not allowed / appropriate, whats your solution, do nothing?

So punishment doesn’t work then, they did it again.
hellithurt · 21/02/2022 19:19

@Pumperthepumper so your child once you've intercepted (aka helicopter parented, assume you only have one or a huge age difference) doesn't do it again?

What do you expect nursery to do when your not helicopterring and your darling DC gets tired etc, not discipline them?

Your children are going to have a fucking mighty big shock once they go to nursery or school. You'll have to deal with that fall out, good luck with that!

hellithurt · 21/02/2022 19:21

@Pumperthepumper the discipline may not work first time, but I guarantee it works quicker than constant interception! Which doesn't work at all. Do you intercept until they're 12?

Pumperthepumper · 21/02/2022 19:21

[quote hellithurt]@Pumperthepumper so your child once you've intercepted (aka helicopter parented, assume you only have one or a huge age difference) doesn't do it again?

What do you expect nursery to do when your not helicopterring and your darling DC gets tired etc, not discipline them?

Your children are going to have a fucking mighty big shock once they go to nursery or school. You'll have to deal with that fall out, good luck with that!

[/quote]
I’m really not interested in being tagged in more insults. If you want a discussion about my parenting methods then I’m happy to have it, but I’m not responding to any more posts in this tone. It’s rude, and it’s unnecessary.

hellithurt · 21/02/2022 19:24

Ok @Pumperthepumper you don't need to respond, it's a free forum!

Glad to see another "we will have to agree to disagree post to you".

No I don't agree with your total lack of parenting'

Oh sorry my child bit yours, but it's not their fault, they're tired. You are such difficult parents to deal with.

Pumperthepumper · 21/02/2022 19:24

@hellithurt

Ok *@Pumperthepumper* you don't need to respond, it's a free forum!

Glad to see another "we will have to agree to disagree post to you".

No I don't agree with your total lack of parenting'

Oh sorry my child bit yours, but it's not their fault, they're tired. You are such difficult parents to deal with.

Ok, but can you back off then? You disagree and that’s fine. Please stop tagging me.