To think punish him on your own bloody time and give DS his toy back?

[toddlertantrumishell]

DS very favourite toy is his paw patrol tower and all of the characters and cars that park in it. It is all he plays with. Yesterday I was out for the day and DS had lots of tantrums with DH and DS bit him. As punishment DH took his tower and all the cars and characters away from him and has said he can have them back Sunday night when DH gets home if he's been a good boy all weekend.

Of course DS shouldn't be biting, and his tantrums are savage and go on for fucking ages, I get it. But it's midday Saturday and I'm alone with him all weekend and he's doing my absolutely head in. He's done nothing but cry and whine and moan. He won't play it with anything else he's tearing around the house looking for his tower. I cannot deal with the crying anymore and I'm in for an entire weekend of a relentlessly tantrumming toddler, because he's being punished for annoying DH with tantrums?

Aibu to think punish him in your own bloody time and don't make me deal with the reality of it?! I want to give it back just to stop the fucking noise before I really lose it with him myself. I'm pregnant and knackered and honestly he is on my final nerve

@ancientgran

Posted too soon. I'm not advocating leaving them alone, I'm advocating them learning to regulate their own behaviour so you can go to the loo or answer the phone and expect them not to hurt someone else.

And you think, in that scenario you posted, aged 2, a child won’t bite when their parent isn’t there because their toy was removed from them when they did it a week ago?

@QforCucumber

Basics of it are that *@Pumperthepumper* has never had a biter or a scratcher so just doesn’t get it! Ds1 didn’t do any of it either so I could quite easily take their stance, until Ds2 who does scratch - he’s 20 months, you say no he scratches and tantrums. You peel his banana wrong he does it (and there’s no knowing it’s wrong until it’s done) you give him something on a purple plate when he wants the blue one but asked for the purple one, he scratches and tantrums. Toddlers are irrational and I wholeheartedly disagree that all tantrums can be pre empted.

So true. I had the perfect first child. I was a teenage mother and everyone was surprised at how I had this perfectly behaved toddler. From a few weeks old I could just put him in his cot and say good night and not hear from him for 12 hrs. He would eat anything he was given. He never touched ornaments and was kind and gentle with other children. I was surely the perfect mother. Then I had 2nd child and reality hit me straight in the face. He didn't sleep, he was fussy with food, he would escape from car seats, nothing was safe and everything had to be moved out of his reach. How did I get it so wrong the second time? Actually he was just different.

Interestingly as adults the one who was the easiest as a baby/toddler/child is the one who is more of a worry. My theory is they all get you in the end.

And you think, in that scenario you posted, aged 2, a child won’t bite when their parent isn’t there because their toy was removed from them when they did it a week ago?

Depends on a variety of things, how much of a biter they are, how effective the sanction was (removing a toy isn't the only thing you can do) but the point is even if it doesn't work the first time you are working towards them regulating their behaviour.

If you encourage you 2 year old to use a potty and they don't succeed the first time you don't just say, "Oh well they will never be toilet trained and I will just have to use nappies for their rest of their life."

Think of it as your way if being a baby sitter, my way is being a teacher. A baby sitter is only responsible for keeping that baby/toddler safe in their care for a limited time, the teacher is teaching them skills for the rest of their life.

At some stage you have to accept a child needs to learn what is acceptable, I've seen my GC coming home from school having been bitten by another 5 year old. That child hadn't learned at an appropriate age that biting is not acceptable, maybe his mummy had prevented lots of bites but she hadn't taught him not to bite.

@ancientgran

And you think, in that scenario you posted, aged 2, a child won’t bite when their parent isn’t there because their toy was removed from them when they did it a week ago?

Depends on a variety of things, how much of a biter they are, how effective the sanction was (removing a toy isn't the only thing you can do) but the point is even if it doesn't work the first time you are working towards them regulating their behaviour.

If you encourage you 2 year old to use a potty and they don't succeed the first time you don't just say, "Oh well they will never be toilet trained and I will just have to use nappies for their rest of their life."

Think of it as your way if being a baby sitter, my way is being a teacher. A baby sitter is only responsible for keeping that baby/toddler safe in their care for a limited time, the teacher is teaching them skills for the rest of their life.

At some stage you have to accept a child needs to learn what is acceptable, I've seen my GC coming home from school having been bitten by another 5 year old. That child hadn't learned at an appropriate age that biting is not acceptable, maybe his mummy had prevented lots of bites but she hadn't taught him not to bite.

I am a teacher.

Are you suggesting a toddler will potty train faster if punished for peeing on the floor?

No, I'm surprised a teacher has such poor comprehension.

I was replying to your post where you were speculating about a child having a toy removed and if that would mean he wouldn't bite a week later, I was comparing it to giving up on toilet training because the first attempt failed. So to make it really simple for you if correcting the child in some way about biting doesn't work first time you need to carry on, just like you do with toilet training. I made no suggestion of punishing a child for not succeeding at toilet training first time, you made that up.

When you are teaching do you ever actually leave children to do things themselves or are you constantly hovering so that they can't "fail" as you make sure they don't?

Your argument is clearly failing if you have to keep making things up which you have done in more than one post. Pretty pointless engaging with you if you can't manage without making things up.

@ancientgran

No, I'm surprised a teacher has such poor comprehension.

I was replying to your post where you were speculating about a child having a toy removed and if that would mean he wouldn't bite a week later, I was comparing it to giving up on toilet training because the first attempt failed. So to make it really simple for you if correcting the child in some way about biting doesn't work first time you need to carry on, just like you do with toilet training. I made no suggestion of punishing a child for not succeeding at toilet training first time, you made that up.

When you are teaching do you ever actually leave children to do things themselves or are you constantly hovering so that they can't "fail" as you make sure they don't?

Your argument is clearly failing if you have to keep making things up which you have done in more than one post. Pretty pointless engaging with you if you can't manage without making things up.

There’s nothing wrong with my comprehension.

You think punishing them is the only way they’ll learn.

Biting - like toilet training - is a developmental stage.

So why not punish them for peeing on the floor and help them learn faster?

At his age the tantrum is not about bad behaviour its about not being able to verbally communicate his feelings. You can't punish feelings. His frustration has resulted in the biting response. He has no way of associating the removal of his favourite toy with that event. Give him it back and talk to your husband about appropriate responses to tantrums and biting.

@toddlertantrumishell While unpleasant, annoying and stressful, your DS's behaviour (tantrums) is normal. Toddlers bite when they can't express themselves, i.e. they don't have the language to describe their feelings or understand them. So there's no way he will understand or learn from having a toy removed from him. He will understand that his dad is angry though, which is why he's whining so much; he doesn't feel safe. Your DH's thinking of how to correct your DS's behaviour is flawed, you can't "punish" a toddler. Your DS probably learned this style of parenting from his family; it needs to change. Check out Good Inside, online or podcast and Family Lives website. You need to work together as parents to raise your children. ❤

Punishments don't work. I'm not some airy fairy parent, I am a teacher with an ma in psychology. I also don't think a child should learn what is expected of them by fear of reprisals! He's also too young to understand along with the time. Your partner's response is the thing that is the issue...he doesn't know how to regulate his own feelings that's why his punishment is too much so how can he expect a nearly 3 year old to do something he (as an adult) hasn't learnt?

I think you both need to look into strategies to deal with this, together!! I know not everyone will agree, but 'nearly 3' is far too old to be having a tantrum that goes on forever and involves biting or hitting. Hows that going to work when he starts nursery? You need a way of dealing with this that works for both of you!!

I've read through all your different posts and can see that you have spoken to your partner about it and have come to an agreement but I would definitely be on your side of you shouldn't be the one dealing with the stress of a tantruming toddler because of a punishment that your partner put in place. They say that children don't remember for as long as adults so punishing a child the day after an event happened will just cause them to think but I didn't do anything wrong and lash out more. I'm glad that it's all sorted and that your partner has agreed to look at what is appropriate punishment for future episodes that might occur. Hope that your little one grows out of biting quickly as its a difficult and painful stage

Punishments for biting etc need to be immediate and pretty short in duration as at DS’s age of nearly 3, he probably won’t even remember having been naughty a couple of hours after the event.

A toddler doesn’t understand punishment that goes on & on he must be so confused bless his little heart; he’s wrong to bite; but a minute for each year of age on the naughty step is enough; to take away his favourite toys is DD being a fucking great big bully & exerting power over a toddler to the extreme.
Give the boy his toys & when he’s calm talk to him about what’s not nice behaviour & how naughty behaviour is now going to be dealt with say it in his language be firm & always follow it through; if he screams blue murder sitting on the naughty step sit with him & when times up give him a hug & say you’ve done so well let’s go & find xxxx his favourite paw patrol character & maybe make a huge fuss telling that character what a good boy he’s been.
Dd also needs to do the same it will take time but you’ll see a change in a week or so.
I worked with some really tough kiddies who would bite, kick, pinch, pull hair & we used this approach with all of them & all but 6-7 responded positively; parents did it at home too & life became more manageable for everyone xx

Are you trying to be funny????

Why is it that men are so often applauded for doing what women/ mums do ALL THE FUCKING TIME???!

Why should OP, as a mother, not have the occasional day out?! Maybe SHE was working??!
Do you think mum gets a thank you for the days she is hoke alone with a difficult toddler?!

You misogynistic terror.

You did the right thing OP. Don't worry about negative comments the perfect mumsnetters are out in force today. Your DH sounds very supportive and your DS is not even 3 ! Anyone heard about the terrible 2s ! We've all handled something badly but it's how you deal with getting it right that's important.

That is way too long! Honestly if he had taken it away for the rest of the day he bit him it probably was still too long - their ability to match actions to consequences over a long time period at that age is non existent. A kid in my son's reception class punched him so hard he had fist marks down his back (didnt find out until he hopped in the bath that night) it was a Friday so couldnt tell school til the monday morning and the teacher said that they now couldnt punish the child as they wouldnt understand that what they did before the weekend was now being set a punishment (honestly im sure by nearly 6 they bloomin do - he knew enough to punch my boy while the teachers had their backs turned!) so a preschool child cant possible go a whole weekend.

No it is not ok to tantrum for hours, no it is not ok to bite, it is also not ok to cause prolonged emotional stress to a child by taking the only thing they care about away. Though i would guess he bit DH because DH wasnt understanding him or was adding to the already raging stress little one was going through at the time. Not an excuse but few kids bite for zero reason.

DH needs to grow up and learn some better techniques and i would talk to a health visitor about the tantrums as you cant really deal with that and a new baby, especially if the oldest starts acting out towards the new arrival. It could be that he has extra needs or is just feeling really unsettled. I would also try to encourage 'visitors' to the tower to help expand his range of toys - maybe Spiderman can pop by to help on a mission? Kids do get hooked on certain things but it is also a sign of additional needs to fixate heavily on something in particular, as would the everlasting tantrums - he could be stressed that people arent understanding him or he isnt understanding them.

You need to set a clear plan of action with DH on punishments, what they can be, how long they last and the fact he cant b#gger off and leave you to deal with it. Naughty step is minutes per year - taking his fav thing for a weekend is a life time to a kid and he wont even remember that it's because he bit in a time of frustration.

Also maybe start a reward chart to encourage good behaviour, or marbles in a jar or something that he is interested in enough to want to work on earning things. Those rewards are out of bounds from being taken as punishment too - he needs to know that being good is something that stays.

@Mumontour85

Are you trying to be funny????

Why is it that men are so often applauded for doing what women/ mums do ALL THE FUCKING TIME???!

Why should OP, as a mother, not have the occasional day out?! Maybe SHE was working??!
Do you think mum gets a thank you for the days she is hoke alone with a difficult toddler?!

You misogynistic terror.

Who are you addressing?😳

@Mumontour85

Are you trying to be funny????

Why is it that men are so often applauded for doing what women/ mums do ALL THE FUCKING TIME???!

Why should OP, as a mother, not have the occasional day out?! Maybe SHE was working??!
Do you think mum gets a thank you for the days she is hoke alone with a difficult toddler?!

You misogynistic terror.

WTF

Jeez, Storm Eunice got everyone really riled up and it came out on this thread. Sorry, who was having tantrums? 😂 @toddlertantrumishell You and your DH are doing your best. Pregnancy, cranky toddler, pandemic, funeral, then a tough ride on MN. Oof, that's a lot. From 3 onwards, every 4 months or so, your kid will up their game or go in a new direction with their behaviour, so you and DH need to equip yourselves now with strategies (which will need updating for the next 15 years🙄 sorry). Ask DS 's key worker for advice, get them to work with you on behaviour. He probably realise s life is about to change, and will calm down once your second baby is born. Sending you love and reassurance.

Give the toy back but make DH do it and explain why it was taken , and if he’s been good to get it back ( tho it doesn’t sound like it)
You’ll just undermine DH if you acquiesce to DS now.
This is definitely anything for an easy life parenting.
Agree with PP you’ll need to come together with a strategy going forward so you’ll not left with the unpleasant consequences.

Totally unreasonable of your DH and you not to put a stop to it straight away. A very harsh nonsensical punishment and totally age and utterly age inappropriate.

The punishment is way too long for that age. Repercussions fir an incident like biting should be calm, immediate and certainly not last for 3 days! Bloody ridiculous.

Yes of course you should give it back to him, you should also leave something secretly recording this idiot when he’s alone with your son. Is he his real dad I wonder? He’s being SPITEFUL to a 2 year old baby; be aware.

I think a 2 day punishment is too long for a toddler. Maybe taking a teenagers phone away or Xbox for the weekend - yes. But a toddler no, I’d have probs given him it back the next day on the good behaviour rule. X

Different toddlers need different reactions, so it's ok to be finding your way together and making mistakes. While not a biter, some level of upset occurs for all kids and we used opportunities of DS being calm to discuss other options that he could immediately implement. Suggest could you go for a cuddle, have a pad to scribble angrily on, say "I'm upset", go and throw the soft ball in the back room etc... Each of which got huge praise when he tried that instead (and trying alone distracted him) and he's got into a lovely habit of hugging then blurting out all his thoughts now he can talk more. Good luck with it all, you're doing fine.