Page 10 | To think punish him on your own bloody time and give DS his toy back?

toddlertantrumishell · 2022-02-19T12:54:58+00:00

DS very favourite toy is his paw patrol tower and all of the characters and cars that park in it. It is all he plays with. Yesterday I was out for the day and DS had lots of tantrums with DH and DS bit him. As punishment DH took his tower and all the cars and characters away from him and has said he can have them back Sunday night when DH gets home if he's been a good boy all weekend. Of course DS shouldn't be biting, and his tantrums are savage and go on for fucking ages, I get it. But it's midday Saturday and I'm alone with him all weekend and he's doing my absolutely head in. He's done nothing but cry and whine and moan. He won't play it with anything else he's tearing around the house looking for his tower. I cannot deal with the crying anymore and I'm in for an entire weekend of a relentlessly tantrumming toddler, because he's being punished for annoying DH with tantrums? Aibu to think punish him in your own bloody time and don't make me deal with the reality of it?! I want to give it back just to stop the fucking noise before I really lose it with him myself. I'm pregnant and knackered and honestly he is on my final nerve

OfstedOffred · 19/02/2022 16:52

You cannot pre-empt bad behaviour and it is not helpful to do so as the child does bit learn to moderate their own impulses without an external input.

Sometimes a child bites not because they are tired or hungry, but because *they want what the other kid has" or they don't want to share. Selfish reasons.

hellithurt · 19/02/2022 16:54

@DrSbaitso

I don't think it's possible to pre-empt and prevent every instance of bad behaviour in a child.

Helicopter parents give it a try!

Pumperthepumper · 19/02/2022 16:54

@OfstedOffred

You cannot pre-empt bad behaviour and it is not helpful to do so as the child does bit learn to moderate their own impulses without an external input.

Sometimes a child bites not because they are tired or hungry, but because *they want what the other kid has" or they don't want to share. Selfish reasons.

Of course you can pre-empt bad behaviour, the OP even says he’s known to bite and is tantrumming a lot just now. Of course they could recognise why that is and step in beforehand.

Absolutely, selfish reasons. But punishment doesn’t change that.

OfstedOffred · 19/02/2022 16:55

Ok so what about an approach with no consequences teaches the child not to bite? Biting will often achieve an outcome - other child drops toy and runs off crying etc. So there's a big incentive to continue doing it, why would the child stop?

Original poster

toddlertantrumishell · 19/02/2022 16:57

@Hertsgirl10 I don't really want to humour you with a reply to be honest, but seriously? Toddlers can be really irritating, regardless of what set them off, there aren't many parents that haven't lost it at one point. You seriously think that noticing, and acknowledging that I was being snappy and starting to lose my temper, taking steps to calm down, stepping away from the situation, taking myself off for a cuppa, posting this thread seeking advice and then calmly addressing the situation and having a good conversation with my son about his emotions and how it's ok to have strong feelings, but it's not ok to be violent - is worthy of anger management? Isn't that the exact way to manage your temper?

I think my posts again highlight that, yes the first one when I had literally just walked away from the situation and was feeling stressed was ranty and sweary. The rest were calm and showed that I had clearly reflected on the situation and dealt with appropriately. Not once was my child affected by any anger. I'm not really sure what more you want from me, but feel free to share some perfect parenting tips as I've never met one before you.

OP posts:

OfstedOffred · 19/02/2022 16:57

Willing to bet pumpers kids are the ones no one wants on a playdate

One of our school mums takes your approach. Child is now 5 and still behaving like a 2 year old. After 3 birthdays people are no longer willing to invite him, he charges around doing whatever he wants, other kids get hurt and his parents impose no consequences.

Pumperthepumper · 19/02/2022 16:57

@OfstedOffred

Ok so what about an approach with no consequences teaches the child not to bite? Biting will often achieve an outcome - other child drops toy and runs off crying etc. So there's a big incentive to continue doing it, why would the child stop?

Because they don’t feel the need to bite. They’re:

Distracted with another toy
Distracted with a game
Engaged in something else

Pumperthepumper · 19/02/2022 16:58

@OfstedOffred

Willing to bet pumpers kids are the ones no one wants on a playdate

One of our school mums takes your approach. Child is now 5 and still behaving like a 2 year old. After 3 birthdays people are no longer willing to invite him, he charges around doing whatever he wants, other kids get hurt and his parents impose no consequences.

So that’s the opposite of what I said to do then. That parent is nothing like me, because they’re not stopping the behaviour before it happens.

OfstedOffred · 19/02/2022 17:01

Pumper

But they really fucking want that Thomas the tank engine. There's only one at playgroup and they want it and won't be distracted, so they do whatever they have to to get it. I've seen it many, many times in younger children. By age 3 most children with parents who impose appropriate consequences are learning that hitting or biting or tantrums won't achieve anything except negative outcomes, so they don't bother. A handful of permissively parented ones will continue to risk it because they might get the toy & know there's no downside.

OfstedOffred · 19/02/2022 17:01

Pumper

The parent isnt there at those birthday parties, its drop and go, and the child has not learned to behave, their parent is doing it for them.

Pumperthepumper · 19/02/2022 17:03

@OfstedOffred

Pumper

The parent isnt there at those birthday parties, its drop and go, and the child has not learned to behave, their parent is doing it for them.

So again, nothing like me. Just another example of a rubbish parent.

ancientgran · 19/02/2022 17:05

@Pumperthepumper Sitting passively is exactly the opposite of what I’ve said to do. Don’t let your kid pull the cat’s tail: cat doesnt scratch. Bite a kid at playgroup (out of frustration? Boredom? Hunger?) and go home means absolutely nothing to the biting kid. Step in before the biting happens: problem solved.

The trouble with biting is that it has a certain satisfaction and some kids might do it because they are bored, hungry whatever. Some do it because they like the sensation particularly if they are teething. For children who just like biting how do you step in before? I suppose you could just pull their teeth out as that might make it less satisfying but most people seem to find that teaching the child not to bite is the most effective way to stop it. So you show displeasure, you do time out or whatever discipline method you use.

It isn't fair to the biter or the bitten to let it go on. I think it is one of the things that will make other children and their parents avoid your child. There is something very shocking about finding your child with a huge bite mark on their face that will make you very inclined to view the biter as the sort of child you don't want yours playing with. At almost 3 the OPs child is old enough to learn that it is not acceptable behaviour. The father might not have picked the right punishment but he is right that it needs to stop.

OfstedOffred · 19/02/2022 17:06

Why "nothing like you"? You will not always be welcome to accompany your child everywhere. So you will need to know by age 5 that when you aren't there to step in, they will not behave badly.

Also be aware that at school there will 100% be consequences, every time, so your child will get a short sharp shock!

Original poster

toddlertantrumishell · 19/02/2022 17:07

I really don't know where this narrative about DH being a dick has come from, he misstepped, haven't we all? I rang him after I gave it back and he understood straight away and said god yeah don't put yourself through hell all weekend. He wasn't doing it deliberately because he was away and I had to deal with it, I was just frustrated that that was what the situation happened to be. He didn't scream at our son and tear it away from him, when toddler bit him he said you need to be nice to people if you want nice things, and moved the tower into a different room. Neither of us are angry and aggressive just first time parents muddling through as best as we can, he thought it might help and didn't realise it wasn't really age appropriate. We've had a chat and he's going to look into tantrum handling tactics before acting in future if he isn't sure whether something is age appropriate. He's away at a funeral this weekend whilst I'm with toddler, I had a 'day off' yesterday to have a break before the weekend at his suggestion. We are very happy to be expecting a second child and he's a supportive partner who probably did more night feeds than I did, gets up with DS 5 mornings a week and lets me lie in, does just as much as me around the house and is a hands on loving parent - not that any of this is relevant to the situation but somehow people are making insane reaches from a well intentioned mistake that's been dealt with.

OP posts:

Pumperthepumper · 19/02/2022 17:07

@OfstedOffred

Why "nothing like you"? You will not always be welcome to accompany your child everywhere. So you will need to know by age 5 that when you aren't there to step in, they will not behave badly.

Also be aware that at school there will 100% be consequences, every time, so your child will get a short sharp shock!

I’m a teacher. And we dont punish in our school either.

Pumperthepumper · 19/02/2022 17:07

[quote ancientgran]**@Pumperthepumper* Sitting passively is exactly the opposite of what I’ve said to do. Don’t let your kid pull the cat’s tail: cat doesnt scratch. Bite a kid at playgroup (out of frustration? Boredom? Hunger?) and go home means absolutely nothing to the biting kid. Step in before the biting happens: problem solved.*

The trouble with biting is that it has a certain satisfaction and some kids might do it because they are bored, hungry whatever. Some do it because they like the sensation particularly if they are teething. For children who just like biting how do you step in before? I suppose you could just pull their teeth out as that might make it less satisfying but most people seem to find that teaching the child not to bite is the most effective way to stop it. So you show displeasure, you do time out or whatever discipline method you use.

It isn't fair to the biter or the bitten to let it go on. I think it is one of the things that will make other children and their parents avoid your child. There is something very shocking about finding your child with a huge bite mark on their face that will make you very inclined to view the biter as the sort of child you don't want yours playing with. At almost 3 the OPs child is old enough to learn that it is not acceptable behaviour. The father might not have picked the right punishment but he is right that it needs to stop.[/quote]
Punishing the kid afterwards doesn’t stop the biting that’s already happened though.

OfstedOffred · 19/02/2022 17:08

It isn't fair to the biter or the bitten to let it go on. I think it is one of the things that will make other children and their parents avoid your child.

This. My child was on the receiving end of this behaviour and the parent imposed no consequences, my child did not understand why the other child was seemingly allowed to hurt them or was even distracted by being taken off and given a snack or a different fun toy (helloooooo.... most forms of distraction constitute the child who has been bitten being given attention and essentially being rewarded for the behaviour).

OfstedOffred · 19/02/2022 17:09

Punishing the kid afterwards doesn’t stop the biting that’s already happened though.

No shit sherlock it stops them doing it again.

Pumperthepumper · 19/02/2022 17:10

@OfstedOffred

Punishing the kid afterwards doesn’t stop the biting that’s already happened though.

No shit sherlock it stops them doing it again.

No, it doesn’t. And the OP says that too: the child bites repeatedly.

luckylavender · 19/02/2022 17:11

@toddlertantrumishell

He's got it back. He cried and said bin lorry no take it away at first and I'm hoping that's from his own head and not DHs words. I asked him if he knows why it was taken away and he said it was because he was sad and because he cried. I've told him you will never be in trouble for crying and that being upset or angry is ok, but we can't hurt people. I really bloody hope DH made it very clear it was for biting and not for crying. I make a point of encouraging DS to be able to say when he's happy, or sad, or angry so that we can talk things through and not tantrums so when he gets upset he knows that's being sad and he communicates that so if he's suddenly connecting that with punishment that's really awful. One incident wouldn't be enough to do that I hope? He tells me all the time that he's happy but is also honest and can acknowledge and name when he isn't and I'll be so sad if he thinks he can't be.

Let's hope DH is understanding and that so are you when you undermine his parenting next.

hellithurt · 19/02/2022 17:11

Well said @toddlertantrumishell! This won't please some of the MN narratives that all men are bastards though.

Glad its sorted.

BABAHOTEL · 19/02/2022 17:12

No, it doesn’t. And the OP says that too: the child bites repeatedly.

But she's not said she's repeatedly punished this?

AlmostAJillSandwich · 19/02/2022 17:13

Dh has as much right to parent as you, it's wrong for you to undermine his parenting decisions.

Pumperthepumper · 19/02/2022 17:15

@hellithurt

Well said *@toddlertantrumishell*! This won't please some of the MN narratives that all men are bastards though.

Glad its sorted.

More projection.

hellithurt · 19/02/2022 17:18

You're way to invested in this post and your self praise of your parenting style is no recommendation!

You've also projected that the child is constantly disciplined for the biting? The OP says he bites, but not mentioned any previous disciplines? And you say I'm projecting?

With your helicopter parenting"style" no with nest you're bitter if a DH gets some free time, it sounds utterly exhausting.