To say the NHS should be privatised?

[Cheekypeach]

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

I'd sooner pay more IN TAXES for a better NHS. That would treat everyone, not just those who could afford private care.

@Cheekypeach

Mumsnet has serious issues with the whole of life not being free, it seems.

Now you’re just being…I don’t know what. Goady?

Unless your proposal somehow covers low income groups, it’s not a healthcare system.

Let me guess. You are disabled. You do have T1D diabetes. You do earn average wage. BUT there’s much more money that in your life? You’re not managing on your wage alone?

@CoconutQueen

I'm a nurse. Yes it should be, not partially but totally. The NHS is a total shambles and not fit for purpose; getting worse and worse every single day.... I am genuinely scared by the corners being cut and how unsafe it is. It's a fucking shambles.

Interesting. Can you elaborate?

To those saying NHS is underfunded, why do you think that? It has had a 20% increase in funding in 10 years. How much would be enough? Is it a bottomless pit? Should we just keep pouring money into something that never seems to work anymore. Has the thought crossed your mind that the model simply is not fit for todays world. Or spending other peoples money just ticks the righteous box, regardless of outcome.

@Thoosa guarantee there’s a high earning DH and some significant inheritance knocking around, nobody could be this wilfully dim shout finances without one of those.

@Cheekypeach

Well, with this train of thought, why should my taxes pay your diabetes/disability treatment when I don't suffer with any health conditions?

Quite, why should you? I don’t think you should be paying for me.

So why are you not using private healthcare just now and paying for yourself? One less person to worry about and you get the healthcare you want - problem solved. If you can already afford this then it's nothing short of nasty that you would attempt to support people that you know who couldn't afford it, missing out on healthcare.

Your small tax contribution (which is meant to cover many things) does not even cover your own insulin never mind you 'paying' for anyone else.

This has to be a joke.

@chocolatebrowniesaddict

The nhs offers healthcare worse than some second world countries, of course it should be privatised. My mother waited in the a&e crying in agony for 9 hours a couple of months ago. She was told to go to the a&e by 111. I don't understand why people think that going private means ending up like the US? There's plenty of European countries who operate nothing like the US and still is very efficient unlike the NHS and cost friendly unlike the US.

How would "going private" have changed the situation at all?

[quote LightfoldEngines]@Thoosa guarantee there’s a high earning DH and some significant inheritance knocking around, nobody could be this wilfully dim shout finances without one of those.[/quote]
I think you’re right.

Surely the admin costs of charging someone £10 per GP appointment would make the actual money gained negligible anyway.

And what if someone couldn't afford £10? So they don't go to the doctors. They then end up with a late diagnosis or even sicker and then that ends up costing them and the healthcare system more than if they'd just gone to the GP early!

@wingscrow

Have you learned nothing?

You can see the dire result of privatising electricity, water, gas, train services: poor service, high prices for the costumers. The only people to benefit are fat cat bosses and shareholders.

Insanity to suggest privatising the NHS would be any better....

You only to look at the USA to see what privatising healthcare is like.

Who says it has to be the American system? What about the French system?

Heck, having to pay vets fees is severe enough, even WITH hugely expensive insurance
And that is for a young dog.
A stomach bug was £98.90. For an anti emetic and antibiotic.

@Cheekypeach you are so naive it’s unbelievable. My husband has previously had cancer that has left him with long term health consequences so if we went to a private system he would never get cover for any of these issues. You would be the same.
I work as a key worker where we haven’t had a pay rise for years. I earn just a bit less than you do and if I had to pay for health care it would be such a huge strain. I literally couldn’t afford it.
As someone who has suffered with Long Covid as a result of being a key worker I have struggled to get help and support from my GP surgery and I can see they are overworked but I can also see clearly how quickly a persons financial situation can change. I had a virus and now I can’t work full time. I have a condition that isn’t understood and isn’t being properly treated I doubt any insurance would support me with that and then I’d be worse of and have a health condition that I need to pay more for.
As someone who is diabetic you must understand that your health and therefore earning potential could change at any time.

Diabetes UK say arranging private health insurance for diabetics is very difficult and expensive and usually excludes the costs of treatment relating to diabetes and it's complications
www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/life-with-diabetes/insurance

turkey voting for Christmas springs to mind

Your small tax contribution (which is meant to cover many things) does not even cover your own insulin never mind you 'paying' for anyone else.

This has to be a joke.
Exactly
Her taxes will be a drop in the ocean to what she's cost the NHS

I have a health condition which hasn't been caused by lifestyle issues (someone always brings that gem up, so pre emptying.)

I have psoriatic arthritis. This required plenty of meds, quarterly blood tests, bi-annually consultant appointments (minimum, sometimes more), routine stays and scans, occasional steroid injections, regular pain medication and more.

As a result of covid I have hypertension- never had it before, hospitalised with it when I had covid. Now on two lots of medication daily plus regularly nurse and/or GP monitoring. Second dose of covid I was given an IV antiviral infusion to help reduce symptoms.

Until a couple of years ago I had SVT, no known cause or trigger. Had ablation surgery to correct it.

After a failed induction abd emergency c section I had Asherman's Syndrome where my uterus has basically stuck together in a ton of places. Had years of constant pain, so regular pain medication and regular gp appointments until finally referred. Then had several consultant appointments, and resulted in two OPs under GA and hard core medication for several weeks after each.

Caught a nasty viral bug and resulted in pneumonia several years ago. Ended up hospitalised on Iv antibiotics, followed by more abs taken orally over a number of weeks. Needed several scans and blood tests during that time.

So, none of the above are 'my fault' - all have just been unfortunate for me. But all would cost a whole heap of money.

I wouldn't be able to get insurance with that medical history (travel insurance premium costs be enough and life insurance is just a no go as it is) for an affordable price.

So then what? As a household we aren't low income, Infact white the opposite. But if I had to pay for all that treatment, when none of it is of my doing, then we'd probably end up be struggling financially.

@sst1234

To those saying NHS is underfunded, why do you think that? It has had a 20% increase in funding in 10 years. How much would be enough? Is it a bottomless pit? Should we just keep pouring money into something that never seems to work anymore. Has the thought crossed your mind that the model simply is not fit for todays world. Or spending other peoples money just ticks the righteous box, regardless of outcome.

Compared to the healthcare systems we all seem to want to adopt, they've all spent more over many years.

Medical inflation runs high, about 4% p.a, so the NHS should have had a 40% increase, it got half, its currently running at 7% !!!
2% p.a is why its fcuked.

When Labour tripled NHS spending, outcomes got better and public satisfaction in the NHS reached record highs.

What we are doing now is paying a small fortune to have a system that doesn't work, spend a little more and it would work.

My DD today, had to tell a patient his discharge date is next week but there is no care package for at least 2 months, he will stay in an NHS unit until there is, this knocks onto to the district hospital that now cannot send a patient to her off site unit.

Yet for a small amount of money, this could be fixed :(

Here you go op. You can pay for your own private treatment for your diabetes. You want private healthcare and have said you don't think others should have to pay for you. I assume that means you also don't want to be paying for anyone else but don't worry, earning NMW you won't be anyway. Win, win.

www.diabetes.co.uk/private-healthcare/cost-of-private-healthcare-with-diabetes.html

I've tried 4 times this week to access my GP, every time I've been told they are full up - but you are supposed to be able to call in a 2 hour slot to get on the list for a call back - called as one of the first 10 in the queue and she was somehow full up already lol.

Had to wait 9 months for a 5 minute neurology examination.

IMO the nhs is good when you have an emergency - but it's terrible for helping with longer term issues.

Free universal healthcare is provided in most European countries using better models.

Ours is outdated, bloated, and very inefficient- I don't think the issues it had can ever be solved, which is a shame because there some top notch people working for it.

A mixed model would be far better like Germany.

No one wants the American model but that's not the only bloody choice

@sst1234

To those saying NHS is underfunded, why do you think that? It has had a 20% increase in funding in 10 years. How much would be enough? Is it a bottomless pit? Should we just keep pouring money into something that never seems to work anymore. Has the thought crossed your mind that the model simply is not fit for todays world. Or spending other peoples money just ticks the righteous box, regardless of outcome.

Agree, but any time the question of (serious) NHS reform is raised, it devolves into people saying, "Oh so you want to end up going bankrupt paying for healthcare like in the US?"

There are plenty of options between a totally dysfunctional NHS, or the dystopian US system.

We need to look at what works elsewhere in the world.

Would you like the first thought if you were involved in a serious accident to be ‘oh god, how much will this cost?’ Families are regularly bankrupted by a bout of illness or broken limb. We are talking 10s of thousands in excesses and contributions AS WELL AS large monthly premiums of up to €1000 a month for a family of 4. Don’t expect any reduction in income taxes either. I certainly do t want to pay $900 for a ride in an ambulance! You obviously do t understand the costs or you would never think like this. Shame on you for falling for Tory propaganda!

No.

I'm guessing you don't have a severely disabled child like me ????

@LightsoftheNorth France's system isn't privatised and we don't pay in as much as France.

OP you might be on to something. Maybe if diabetics like you who want to pay privately were allowed to opt out and did so it would free up some money to train desperately needed staff in the NHS

@chocolatebrowniesaddict I'm really sorry your mum went through that and i hope shes ok now, but your comment that nhs healthcare is among the worst in the world is factually incorrect.

The NHS still provides some of the best healthcare in the world. The infrastructure for providing it, however, has been crippled by years of deliberate underfunding.

The argument that it has had more funding over the last few years than before is erroneous- there are many ways to spin statistics and funding needs to not only meet the need, but it needs to match rising costs (overheads, inflation etc). Furthermore, how do they define "NHS" in this situation? Because once you take into account the reduction of funding from various points of primary health and social care, you end up with a massively increased demand on the NHS.

Not simply in terms of numbers of bodies, but in terms of complexity of cases. The result of this is further reduction of the funding of the NHS, in real terms and by deception.