To say the NHS should be privatised?

[Cheekypeach]

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

@Thoosa France and Germany pay a lot more for their medical care.

@Kazzyhoward yes just as GPs are private businesses. But nearly all rely on NHS contracts.
Dentists contracts have been eroded so that NHS dentists hardly exist now. So in theory various people are entitled to free NHS dentistry, but try actually finding an NHS dentist.

Yabu people are made homeless in the US over the costs of medical care. The NHS should be protected. If you want to pay for private then you do that

[quote Monopolyiscrap]@Thoosa France and Germany pay a lot more for their medical care.[/quote]
I know but it works better, faster and more efficiently, low income groups are covered and employers aren’t let off the hook, either. Better for the exchequer if the workforce is healthier, too.

I used to be a huge supporter of the NHS. I didn’t and won’t sue them despite being told I should. But I’ve experienced and seen too much uselessness now. What people need is fast diagnosis and competent treatment, for chronic as well as acute conditions.

I know posters keep saying “but NHS works when properly funded by Labour governments”, and I agree, but a health service that only works when one particular party is in office just isn’t up to scratch.

We need something that is safe as a model and not a political football.

If you can afford it then why are you not already receiving private treatment?

@ThisIsNotThePostYourLookingFor Because she thinks we should be 'contributing' towards it.

No I dont think it should be privatised.
It should remain for everyone

@Cheekypeach

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

You can, go private. The rest of us who need the NHS can’t do that.

People seem to forget that the rest of the developed world has universal healthcare and does not have an NHS.

It's not USA or NHS.
Also the USA leads the world on medical technology innovation.

The USA has the most expensive and most unequal healthcare system in the world.
While mortality for black pregnant women and babies is shockingly high, very rich people can get the latest drugs and treatments.
The cost per head is nearly 3 times per head of UK healthcare.

@downtonabbeyfan1234

People seem to forget that the rest of the developed world has universal healthcare and does not have an NHS.

It's not USA or NHS.
Also the USA leads the world on medical technology innovation.

This. It’s easy to come up with examples of bad public and private healthcare. We need to learn from the examples of good practice globally.

Learn from the best, provided there is any realistic political trajectory to delivering those improvements. If not, will it just contribute to pushing open a door like trusting Ebenezer that the door at Shaws in the dark is safe.

Where are the millions of lobbying and donations and funding coming from now? Will a warm cooperative delivery model have the money to donate for influence now? Will it have share holders, NEDs consultancy and other means to channel revenue into pockets?

Will increasing transaction costs, of themselves, improve things now?

Will the current government increase funding to Western European norms and commit to this for the decades to enable infrastructure and improvements to embed?

The elephant in the room is the UK government do not care about providing good public healthcare. What they want is to give their friends the chance to make lots of money. It will simply be the PPE scandal all over again. Vast amounts of public money wasted so some people can get very rich.
I do not trust the government we have to do anything for the benefit of the public.

"It's badly run, therefore it should be privatised" is such an idiotic argument, lacking in all logic.

"It's underfunded, therefore it should be privatised" is equally stupid.

The Met Police is badly run... is anyone seriously suggesting it should be sold off to the highest bidder?

Public ownership means democratic control. The alternative to democratic control having aspects of healthcare unduly controlled by private, profit-seeking interests. The problem with that is that some diseases and conditions are more profitable to treat than others. So priorities change, and not in the favour of patients. I've seen it first hand.

And privatisation in parts of the NHS has already spectacularly failed and made provision worse.

@MaryMcCarthy OP convinced me - health. education. police. criminal justice. parliament. Tell Sid. We could all get a share. Every school could be an Eton. Everyone gets the feeling of security from a Gated Community-standard of policing. Some might say criminal justice and parliament has been privatised in part anyway.

OP can get the comfort of paying the additional costs of their T1D on average wages on top of general family health care costs in line with their previous posts.

The improvements from the private sector will more than make up for any transaction costs, profit, information assymmetries and so on so win-win.

Sunny uplands.

@Monopolyiscrap

So this is not about reforming the NHS. It is about how I get taxpayers to partly fund my private medical care. Bloody hell!

If you want to go private go ahead. But no taxpayers should not be partly funding private healthcare.

Taxpayers already do fund private healthcare. I have had a few appointments and a couple of minor operations at our local Nuffield Hospital through my private health insurance. Every time there are set times for private appointments and operations, and set times for NHS appointments and operations. Same hospital, same consultants.

Capri3 the NHS is employing consultant for x hours, and the consultant is doing whatever they like during their non contracted hours. That might be doing private practice. So taxpayers are obviously not paying for that time!

Or something like, a £10 fee for GP appointments, £15 for consultant appointments, £300 bill for maternity services/birth etc. Everything having a small charge.

The costs of collection and administration would take up most of what that sort of scheme would realise. To say nothing of the extra healthcare costs arising because people become more ill than they need to because they felt they couldn't afford that appointment before their condition significantly worsened.

People would just go to A and E instead. Or not go about that lump or blood in their urine or poo until their cancer is more advanced.
I am currently trying to persuade a friend to go to her GP who is worried she has cancer. It is an uphill struggle.
Also people would expect more. The time given to an average GP appointment is 8 minutes. People will demand longer because "they have paid". It would be a disaster.

And what would you do if a woman who gave birth did not or could not pay? Send her to prison for an unpaid debt?

Yes,very unreasonable! Right now in this country there are increasing numbers using food banks. To eat. To survive. Not for luxuries.
Look up the origins of the NHS and why it was founded. Because your "I for one can afford...." attitude will take us straight back there.
Are you unreasonable to think that diabetic patients can't have access to insulin, asthmatics to have inhalers, cancer patients to have basic treatment?
Are you unreasonable to think that all people, from children to the elderly, suffering with treatable illnesses, should die if they cannot afford antibiotics?
I work for the NHS, you should see what we all see. You are more than unreasonable. You are oblivious to what is happening around you.

@alltheapples

And what would you do if a woman who gave birth did not or could not pay? Send her to prison for an unpaid debt?

In the words of Mr. Wormwood, "repossess the kid" lol.

I'm happy with the care and speed of referrals that my family have had with the NHS even through the pandemic. None of my family would be able to pay for the care they are receiving especially at the amount the care would cost privately. This would have meant delayed diagnosis and treatment as waiting until you'd saved up, for example. We need what the NHS offers. Free at point of use health care for all.

That said, a discussion could be had about what is and is not essential treatment. Should the NHS fund cosmetic surgery, for instance? (I'm just thinking aloud really!)