To say the NHS should be privatised?

[Cheekypeach]

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

Well a bill for maternity services would be a good start, as it’s not an ‘illness’ per se and more of a life choice.

@Cheekypeach

Well a bill for maternity services would be a good start, as it’s not an ‘illness’ per se and more of a life choice.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@Cheekypeach

Well a bill for maternity services would be a good start, as it’s not an ‘illness’ per se and more of a life choice.

Except when it's not. What about all types of complications that can occur. Especially when people would opt for free birthing putting mothers and babies at risk.

@SC215

Like I just said I think there should be flat fees for services £10 GP appointment £15 Hospital appointment £300 flat fee for maternity services & giving birth on NHS £20 for broken limb

...all of these price quotes are drop in the ocean of how much these things actually cost.

This.

Healthcare is expensive. If you think there is waste (there isn't really) and mismanagement (there isn't) then you must wait until you are paying for it.

You'll maybe get better food and a bit of attention, but you'll be charged for it.
You'll have investigations that you don't need but are useful to pad out the bill
You'll have treatments that aren't evidence based but are expensive

And when things go wrong your family will go bankrupt paying your bills.

Of course that's an extreme and American model, but remember we have a Tory govt so guess which model they will prefer?

Each HC system has its advantages and disadvantages and each one has areas in which it could improve. The NHS certainly does, none of us who work in it think it is perfect, but, you know what? It is full of committed staff - front line and management, who work their arses off for the patients and the entire population of this country in often shit conditions and long hours. We aren't heroes, we don't deserve or want claps, freebies or insincere bollocks from our leaders...we just want decent pay, decent conditions and a bit of fucking respect for our professionalism.

You want private healthcare, then bring it on. We will earn so much more than we currently do. Of course some patients will die, health inequalities and all the work that we do to reach those with little voice will be lost, but you will have your nice food and attention.

Crack on.

@whosaidtha

It is entirely down to the nhs that we have had such a successful vaccine roll out. I highly doubt the private company run by the torries mates would have delivered anything half as successful.

That may or may not be true, but the fact remains that our cancer survival rates are pitiful compared to many other countries.

So just disproportionately punish poor women for daring to reproduce? Yikes. Is it “mad at the poor” week on MN?

Mumsnet has serious issues with the whole of life not being free, it seems.

Exactly @LightsoftheNorth people are dying anyway because the system is so crap & overburdened. S

@Cheekypeach

Mumsnet has serious issues with the whole of life not being free, it seems.

Not at all. I have private health insurance but I can’t get cover for my pre existing medical conditions.

I’ve knowledge of the Irish system and o couldn’t get insurance their either.

No thank you to your proposal.

I and there 😳

@Cheekypeach

Well a bill for maternity services would be a good start, as it’s not an ‘illness’ per se and more of a life choice.

You're correct. I chose to have my dd. I didn't choose the 10 echocardiogram ultrasounds I'd have to have, at a specialists childrens hospital, whilst also having regular ultrasounds at my local hospital due to the high risk. I didn't choose to have to be induced due to my waters breaking 4 weeks early. I didn't choose to have a c-section because my waters had been broken too long. Then of course there was the nicu stay, then the stay on a cardiac ward. My daughter being born with heart problems would have cost me thousands of pounds. So yes she was a choice, and I absolutely wouldn't choose differently. However if I'd have had to pay for all of that it would have bankrupted me, we're talking thousands of pounds. I wouldn't have been able to afford it. So should I then have to choose to give birth at home?

I'm really starting to question the validity of your disability, nobody who understands disability can be this dim towards healthcare and it's costs.

@Cheekypeach

Oh, I forgot, you're OK, you can afford £10 to visit your GP, so you don't care about the people who will die as a result of your wants.

But in insisting upon the NHS being nearly entirely publicly funded, you’re advocating for a lower quality of care for everyone as people that hardly contribute to the system are needing a lot of regular medical care.

People are unhealthier, more obese and living longer than ever. There simply aren’t enough people contributing to the NHS and far more people taking out of it.

Well, with this train of thought, why should my taxes pay your diabetes/disability treatment when I don't suffer with any health conditions? Maybe with less people like you, people like me could get better treatment from the NHS when needed?

There is absolutely not a chance you could afford all your treatment yet you sound like someone who 'thinks' of themselves as middle class and looks down their noses at those with other health issues because they may or may not earn the average wage.

It's like a working class person voting Tory. Had you said 'I think it would be better for people earning a certain wage to contribute a small amount' then yes that would sound reasonable. What you're suggestion is privatisation showing you have absolutely no idea what this means.

Well a bill for maternity services would be a good start, as it’s not an ‘illness’ per se and more of a life choice.

Great idea OP. I shouldn't pay as much as you though, because I don't have any health conditions. (Again, not being serious, but what a dumb argument).

Well, with this train of thought, why should my taxes pay your diabetes/disability treatment when I don't suffer with any health conditions?

Quite, why should you? I don’t think you should be paying for me.

@Cheekypeach

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

Jesus Christ. Give me strength.

Do you actually want a return to the times of people dying - actually dying through poverty.

Ok let’s turn the question around. What should be done to improve the NHS? Please provide detail and a bit of costing not just ‘tax the rich init’

The private sector carries out surgeries for 40% less than the NHS

Because they only perform elective surgeries on low risk, clinically stable patients. The NHS performs surgery on complex patients with multiple health conditions, it performs emergency surgeries, it performs long expensive surgeries like transplant surgeries, brain surgeries, spinal surgeries, limb amputations. It operates on everyone from tiny babies to the oldest old. The recovery of these patients can be long and arduous. Their care costs a lot. Beds, medical and nursing care, OTs, physio, pharmacy, dietetics, scans and the associated technical personnel, hospital transport, then expensive discharge planning and any delays incurred (extra bed days).

Whereas an uncomplicated, elective patient will be admitted to their private hospital on the same day as their surgery, have the op, stay a day or two and be discharged to their own home with minimal follow up.

Have you any idea of the actual cost of many of the treatments given on the nhs?

Look at prescriptions and how many of them are free - what would you provide to cover children or those on a low income?

Don’t you get your prescriptions free since your a diabetic? How would you like to be paying £££ for your testing kits and insulin?

And the people currently choosing between eating or heating their homes? What do they do?

£10 might not be much to you, but for the thousands of people who rely on food banks it’s a significant amount of money. If you had to choose between school shoes for your child getting that bit of blood in your stool/ funny looking mole/ pesky cough you’ve had for a month checked out, what are you going to choose? After all, it could be nothing. Or it could be cancer caught too late because money was tight.

If your salary is average, you’re a lot better off than many people. Personally I’d rather everyone pay more in taxes (means tested, obviously) rather than let poorer people die just because I can afford to pay for appointments .

Have you got private healthcare for yourself op?
If not, why not? Why don't you give it a try?
The 'already pay for NHS ' reason won't wash because even with private healthcare, you'll still be using the NHS for any emergency.
You could just use private healthcare for your diabetes and GP visits. Why don't you do this?

@BalladOfBarryAndFreda

The private sector carries out surgeries for 40% less than the NHS

Because they only perform elective surgeries on low risk, clinically stable patients. The NHS performs surgery on complex patients with multiple health conditions, it performs emergency surgeries, it performs long expensive surgeries like transplant surgeries, brain surgeries, spinal surgeries, limb amputations. It operates on everyone from tiny babies to the oldest old. The recovery of these patients can be long and arduous. Their care costs a lot. Beds, medical and nursing care, OTs, physio, pharmacy, dietetics, scans and the associated technical personnel, hospital transport, then expensive discharge planning and any delays incurred (extra bed days).

Whereas an uncomplicated, elective patient will be admitted to their private hospital on the same day as their surgery, have the op, stay a day or two and be discharged to their own home with minimal follow up.

This.

I recently had a surgery done in a private hospital as an in patient on a waiting list initiative.

The original life saving surgery was done as an emergency on the nhs. I’d be bankrupt if I had to pay for it.

Service is so awful because staff are far too far over stretched (and care is not safe). As it gets worse for the ones that stay, they leave and the problem exacerbates. It's a downward spiral.

This.
This is what we mean when we say underfunded: not enough staff are being trained. You are very deluded OP if you think privatising the NHS will give you better health care. Where are all the extra doctors and nurses going to come from?

It's nice you can afford it. I dread to think what my emergency appendectomy cost recently, how on earth would I have paid for it either in a lump sum or through insurance as if we don't get taxed and insured enough in our lives?

I agree that it requires genuine and substantial reform.

I don't believe that full privatisation should ever be considered, but there are plenty examples around the world of more viable systems.

@blanketyblanked

It's nice you can afford it. I dread to think what my emergency appendectomy cost recently, how on earth would I have paid for it either in a lump sum or through insurance as if we don't get taxed and insured enough in our lives?

She can't afford it though 🤣