To say the NHS should be privatised?

[Cheekypeach]

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

Because diabetes costs the NHS 10% of its budget each year!

The only option under this government will be a for profit healthcare model as the US. Private healthcare companies want to make profits and pass on to shareholders. This makes care v expensive and private insurance will be costly. Fine if you are wealthy, for most people they will find a larger percentage of their income going towards premiums and still finding they have to set up gofundme pages for treatments or become bankrupt. The poor will have barely any care.

As this graph shows between 2009 and 2017 the govt reduced significantly the annual percentage increase of GDP spent on healthcare and it’s still below the average since the NHS began 70 years ago
Increase funding, even if taxes need raising, still much better than for profit healthcare.

Just go private then op. Nothing stopping you paying now

But I already pay towards NHS. Why should I pay twice?

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But you're contradicting yourself here. Who is goijg to pay for the rest of the maternity service after paying £300? Because you do understand like in places like the US, the cost of tens of thousands?

• sorry, mistake above, not ‘annual percentage increase of GDP’, but annual percentage increase.

The private sector carries out surgeries for 40% less than the NHS

Do you know what type of operation the private sector does? It's the high volume, low complex, cheap ones. But I tell you what, if you suffer any complications during or as a result of those routine, simple, cheap and did I mention high volume (maximising profit) ops, do you know where you will be sent to get sorted out?

Your local NHS service.

@ballsdeep indeed.

The cost of an ambulance in an emergency in the states in thousands of pounds.

Once you privatise the NHS, you start applying a cost to human life which opens up a massive can of worms where ethics is concerned.

Parts of the NHS is already privatised

Look at what is written on the side of many ambulances you see

Yes we need to look at other European models but we shall be paying a lot more will employers take this up like they do in other countries ?

@SecretSpAD

The private sector carries out surgeries for 40% less than the NHS

Do you know what type of operation the private sector does? It's the high volume, low complex, cheap ones. But I tell you what, if you suffer any complications during or as a result of those routine, simple, cheap and did I mention high volume (maximising profit) ops, do you know where you will be sent to get sorted out?

Your local NHS service.

As demonstrated rather perfectly by one particular episode of This is Going To Hurt.

@thegreenlight

Would you like the first thought if you were involved in a serious accident to be ‘oh god, how much will this cost?’ Families are regularly bankrupted by a bout of illness or broken limb. We are talking 10s of thousands in excesses and contributions AS WELL AS large monthly premiums of up to €1000 a month for a family of 4. Don’t expect any reduction in income taxes either. I certainly do t want to pay $900 for a ride in an ambulance! You obviously do t understand the costs or you would never think like this. Shame on you for falling for Tory propaganda!

We don't have to have a system based on that kind of model though. Surely people can see that there are other health systems which do actually work?

But I already pay towards NHS. Why should I pay twice?

Not if you only earn NMW you won't be. You will be a net recipient of state services, including healthcare.

The NHS and social care needs wholescale reform. We need to have an honest and frank chat about what can be afforded giving the ever increasing scientific discoveries and all of us living longer.

We need to have a calm discussion without hyperbole that any one suggesting reform wants an American system and people to be deprived of healthcare.

What is happening with many areas of privatisation of the NHS is that the services they provide are rapidly closed and ended altogether because the private companies running them don't find it profitable enough to continue.

Which places greater strain on the NHS that remains nationalised, thus increasing the strain on remaining services and perpetuating a vicious cycle of determined destruction.

@Warszawa

I've tried 4 times this week to access my GP, every time I've been told they are full up - but you are supposed to be able to call in a 2 hour slot to get on the list for a call back - called as one of the first 10 in the queue and she was somehow full up already lol.

Had to wait 9 months for a 5 minute neurology examination.

IMO the nhs is good when you have an emergency - but it's terrible for helping with longer term issues.

Free universal healthcare is provided in most European countries using better models.

Ours is outdated, bloated, and very inefficient- I don't think the issues it had can ever be solved, which is a shame because there some top notch people working for it.

A mixed model would be far better like Germany.

No one wants the American model but that's not the only bloody choice

Isn't this just 'other European countries spend more on healthcare than us, so they have proportionally better care" ?

No reason to change they system...

I think this is just a wind up. No one can be this naive of the cost of healthcare. Picking £10 out of the air to pay for GP appointment 😂

IMO the nhs is good when you have an emergency - but it's terrible for helping with longer term issues wasn't the case when it was properly funded

The problem with privatising the NHS is that the ONLY model currently on the table is a US model, US companies, US problems. I would rather our current NHS than a US healthcare system.

The NHS has huge problems, I want to leave working for them because of it. It needs reform, but not unless government are prepared to look at all available options, not the one promising the most financial benefit.

Absolutely not. Can only assume you can afford to pay and also vote Tory

@canary1

I think this is just a wind up. No one can be this naive of the cost of healthcare. Picking £10 out of the air to pay for GP appointment 😂

Of course it is. She's disabled, diabetic and on a low wage FFS 😂

Be very careful what you wish for.

I have relatives who live in a country with a very poor health service (think along the lines of hospitals without basic equipment and medication). They pay for privately for healthcare. It is absolutely extortionate in relation to their earnings and a major burden for them. They are very very envious of the UK's healthcare system.

The NHS isn't perfect but it is the best solution for the majority of the population. Prices are rising exponentially at the moment. How are people going to avoid private healthcare?

In Ireland op you’d have to pay about €50 just to see the gp. Your income is too high for a medical card or a gp visit card.

Your tenner is well off.

@Cheekypeach

Ok let’s turn the question around. What should be done to improve the NHS? Please provide detail and a bit of costing not just ‘tax the rich init’

Well, since you are asking...as a GP and Clinical Lead (that's management if you didn't realise), as well as a previous career in public health, civil service and a spell as a social advisor....I say

Stop making the NHS a political football
Make sure we have Health Secretaries that have actually worked in the health service and have experience of management within it.
Give the CEO of NHS England the power and flexibility to run the service as she sees fit without political interference
Fund it properly with long term investment so I can actually recruit staff for more than a year
Allow trusts to accrue money at end of year instead of it disappearing into the ether (some do to be fair)
Stop the pointless re organisations and promote a culture of quality improvement driven by staff (non clinical and clinical working together)
HCPs to show some respect for their management colleagues because our jobs are fucking difficult enough as it is dealing with crap from the govt without you starting as well
Improve pay and conditions and make the NHS an attractive option to work in for staff
Invest in technology and join up pathways to make patient experience better
Vote out the Tories.

If nothing else, the last one.

We don't have to have a system based on that kind of model though. Surely people can see that there are other health systems which do actually work?

err what part of "they pay in far more" don't you get?

@SecretSpAD well said. Fancy the job? I'd vote for you.

@SecretSpAD For Health Secretary!

My DD is a HCP and thinks her Band 7 manager is brilliant :) they don't all think managers are bad.

@SecretSpAD

Unfortunately we seem to do the opposite of everything on your list.