To say the NHS should be privatised?

[Cheekypeach]

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

@Cheekypeach

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

I'm with your DH on this

@SC215

Anyone want to argue with that?

Me. Healthcare should be equally available depending on need, not income.

And your insurance will be very expensive if you have type one diabetes and a disability, and earn the average wage.

Exactly. OP As a diabetic person on national average im guessing that in this system you couldn’t afford private or even possibly semi private insurance.

You probably wouldn’t even be covered for some conditions.

So if you got cancer, for example, you would get a lower standard of care than someone on private. So therefore your chances of survival would be lower. At every appointment the doctor would be outlining the cheaper treatment option, fully knowing that there are better/less painful/less damaging options out there that can’t be offered to you because you can’t afford it.

Would you really be happy with this?

Not privatised but properly managed. It needs a complete overhaul, get rid of the burocracy and the appalling mismanagement. It's not short of money , it needs to stop the waste. The private sector Carries out surgeries for 40%less cost than the NHS , So why can't the NHS do the same?

Oh, I forgot, you're OK, you can afford £10 to visit your GP, so you don't care about the people who will die as a result of your wants.

But in insisting upon the NHS being nearly entirely publicly funded, you’re advocating for a lower quality of care for everyone as people that hardly contribute to the system are needing a lot of regular medical care.

People are unhealthier, more obese and living longer than ever. There simply aren’t enough people contributing to the NHS and far more people taking out of it.

Have you learned nothing?

You can see the dire result of privatising electricity, water, gas, train services: poor service, high prices for the costumers. The only people to benefit are fat cat bosses and shareholders.

Insanity to suggest privatising the NHS would be any better....

You only to look at the USA to see what privatising healthcare is like.

@Georgeskitchen

Not privatised but properly managed. It needs a complete overhaul, get rid of the burocracy and the appalling mismanagement. It's not short of money , it needs to stop the waste. The private sector Carries out surgeries for 40%less cost than the NHS , So why can't the NHS do the same?

Someone reads the Daily Mail!

@Cheekypeach you earn the national average?! Then you’re an idiot basically.

Yes, I agree with you. The NHS was set up for emergency care. We have an ageing population so it is going to become more and more difficult to fund. I'm in scotland, prescriptions are free. Doctors should not be able to prescribe paracetamol etc. It makes a mockery of the system.

Just to give you an idea of what things cost. I had to have radiation every day for 3 weeks after being diagnosed with breast cancer. I have private health insurance through my work. The insurers sent me a copy of the bill from the clinic. My treatment cost £1,000 per day - every weekday for 3 weeks. Do you really want cancer patients to be faced with bills like that?

I think you've just asked the wrong question @Cheekypeach.
And if people were reading what you were suggesting, it's a million miles away from the US system,
We should be looking to France.

www.expatica.com/fr/healthcare/healthcare-basics/a-guide-to-the-french-healthcare-system-101166/

I object to NHS privatisation on the basis that I consider healthcare to be something that people should get on the basis of need rather than ability to pay.
However, even if you don't agree with that, the small co-pays you suggest are unlikely to improve the service, especially if you bring in a profit motive. £12million is an absolute drop in the ocean for a yearly NHS budget which is 190.3billion this year.

[quote lenaperkins]I think you've just asked the wrong question @Cheekypeach.
And if people were reading what you were suggesting, it's a million miles away from the US system,
We should be looking to France.

www.expatica.com/fr/healthcare/healthcare-basics/a-guide-to-the-french-healthcare-system-101166/[/quote]
I think you’re right, poorly worded on my part

@Dasher789

Yes, I agree with you. The NHS was set up for emergency care. We have an ageing population so it is going to become more and more difficult to fund. I'm in scotland, prescriptions are free. Doctors should not be able to prescribe paracetamol etc. It makes a mockery of the system.

It wasn’t. It was set up to provide comprehensive health care from cradle to grave.

So under your system, does everyone except children pay the charges you set out or do you envision exemptions for the elderly, those on benefits etc?
If you did have exemptions the number of charged for treatments would probably mirror the amount of paid for prescriptions, so about 10% . That's an awful lot of admin costs to collect money from 10% of service users. Unless you planned to charge everyone? In which case, as a type 1 diabetic with disabilities earning NMW, how are you going to afford this yourself?

Definitely not! We should all be so proud to have the NHS- free healthcare for all at the same standard!

Yeah, let's do that, it works so well in America.... oh, hang on...

@Cheekypeach let's assume at least half of the appointments are people on benefits or pensioners, or kids, so people who wouldn't pay. So you're on about £6m a day from you Go appointment charges.

The nhs costs about £134m a day. And the dr appointment is probably the cheapest to deliver. So yes it's a drop in the ocean.

[quote peboh]@Cheekypeach why would the wait times be shorter though? The same amount of people that need treatment now, will need it then.
Oh wait no, you're right. People who can't afford it won't get their treatment. So you'll jump to the top of the queue whilst others are dying because they can't pay for their healthcare. [/quote]
Yep. That's what Op is hoping for.

@Susu49

You realise that the Conservatives have had a long term plan to engineer this exact situation?

They created a white paper setting out the method for doing so around the time they were first elected to government. It went very much like this...Underfund the NHS until it can no longer function and the population feel that privatisation is the only way forward.

What @Susu49 said. Conservatives broke it on purpose for ideological reasons.

People are unhealthier, more obese and living longer than ever. There simply aren’t enough people contributing to the NHS and far more people taking out of it.

5 million diabetics in the UK. Diabetic care projected to cost 17 billion in 2035. 17 billion divided by 5 million is £3,400 per year each. So we should start by charging people with diabetes a premium of £283 per month. Why should I pay towards it? I don't have diabetes? (Note: I'm not being serious).

A normal birth costs the NHS £700. A c section is £1500

[quote ThinkAboutItTomorrow]@Cheekypeach let's assume at least half of the appointments are people on benefits or pensioners, or kids, so people who wouldn't pay. So you're on about £6m a day from you Go appointment charges.

The nhs costs about £134m a day. And the dr appointment is probably the cheapest to deliver. So yes it's a drop in the ocean. [/quote]
Well you have to start somewhere don’t you? I wasn’t suggesting that one surcharge would fix it all.

The only way to get reasonable healthcare pricing is to have government healthcare, or at least government control of prices.

Otherwise there is a complete asymmetry of information and bargaining power: a person who is unwell may not even be conscious, and if they are, they are too often in no position to reject offered care based on price or quality.

With the exception of elective, non-urgent procedures, the “free market” does not work for healthcare.

It is possible to do partial privatisation of care provision and get good health outcomes with more reasonable costs, especially for non-urgent treatments, but only if the government is very involved in controlling standards of care as well as pricing.

@Cheekypeach

Oh, I forgot, you're OK, you can afford £10 to visit your GP, so you don't care about the people who will die as a result of your wants.

But in insisting upon the NHS being nearly entirely publicly funded, you’re advocating for a lower quality of care for everyone as people that hardly contribute to the system are needing a lot of regular medical care.

People are unhealthier, more obese and living longer than ever. There simply aren’t enough people contributing to the NHS and far more people taking out of it.

And you're advocating for people who can't afford to see their GP to die because you can't afford to go private. Not that you'd be covered by insurance due to pre existing conditions, so, you'd be in the same boat of lesser or no healthcare. Would you be happy with being told "I'm sorry Cheekypeach, but you earn too much to qualify for help towards your recent hospital stay as a result of a complication of your diabetes. That'll be £15K. Will you be paying cash or cheque?" If you think that, with the Conservatives in charge, we will get anything other than a US healthcare system, you are very naive. And once it's done, you can be certain it won't be reversed or made more affordable to those who can't afford healthcare. By all means advocate for a 2 tier healthcare system. Just be aware than you could find yourself in the bottom tier, which is what you don't want.

Or something like, a £10 fee for GP appointments, £15 for consultant appointments, £300 bill for maternity services/birth etc. Everything having a small charge.

No. I have several severe, disabling, chronic illnesses. I’m currently under 7 consultants. I have regular infusions, scans, investigations, appointments etc. I simply wouldn’t be able to afford this. I think this would fuck many disabled people over.

I really wish I had gotten health insurance before all of my conditions were discovered but I didn’t as I was only 18 when I got sick, and now hardly anyone will insure me inclusive of them and the places that will have a £££££ premium.