To say the NHS should be privatised?

[Cheekypeach]

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

@Cheekypeach
Could you afford to pay full price for your insulin, and all the supplies you need to manage your diabetes?

Imagine being told you have cancer and then being told you have to pay for having it madness!

[quote ThinkAboutItTomorrow]@Cheekypeach the Swiss pay 50% more per person for healthcare than we do.

So $6000 per person per year Vs $4000.

That's much higher taxes to cover those on low income. And your own cover on top. And a chunk of it goes to shareholders. [/quote]
If the healthcare is good quality, and waiting times shorter etc, then that would be worth it for me.

@Cheekypeach You do realise that the amounts you are suggesting won’t even cover the extra administrative costs of collecting that money?

@Cheekypeach why would the wait times be shorter though? The same amount of people that need treatment now, will need it then.
Oh wait no, you're right. People who can't afford it won't get their treatment. So you'll jump to the top of the queue whilst others are dying because they can't pay for their healthcare.

$300 per vial of insulin OP.

How many do you use per month?

And that’s just the insulin, NOT your medical team costs.

Can someone explain to me what you mean by 'privatising the nhs'
How does that work in practice? I assume you'd need extra staff?

This is exactly what the Tories want. They have underfunded the NHS for a decade to bring it to its knees in the hope that stupid people will then support their desire to privatise it.

Privatisation is not the answer. It would be a total disaster and would penalise the poorest in society. The NHS needs proper funding. If people stopped voting for the Tories like a bunch of turkeys voting for Christmas, the NHS wouldn’t be in the mess it is.

Let’s do a bit of maths, there are 1.2 million GP appointments per day (going by pre-pandemic levels). If appointments were £10, that would be £12 million a day for the NHS (someone brainier than me will have to work that out per year). Hardly a tiny minuscule amount.

You keep repeating that you earn the national average which is £31,772 pa. You do realise that that is about double what someone in a minimum wage job earns, right?

The nhs offers healthcare worse than some second world countries, of course it should be privatised. My mother waited in the a&e crying in agony for 9 hours a couple of months ago. She was told to go to the a&e by 111. I don't understand why people think that going private means ending up like the US? There's plenty of European countries who operate nothing like the US and still is very efficient unlike the NHS and cost friendly unlike the US.

No I don't think it should be. The NHS just needs huge investment into it so that it starts to work again.

Would you be making this suggestion if you were on the breadline (would it really be fair to make people choose not only between heating and eating but also medicating/living?!).

@Susu49

You realise that the Conservatives have had a long term plan to engineer this exact situation?

They created a white paper setting out the method for doing so around the time they were first elected to government. It went very much like this...Underfund the NHS until it can no longer function and the population feel that privatisation is the only way forward.

Exactly. Make us unwashed masses think that we came up with the idea and laugh all the way to the bank. It's been done everywhere else, who would spot it coming.

@Cheekypeach

Let’s do a bit of maths, there are 1.2 million GP appointments per day (going by pre-pandemic levels). If appointments were £10, that would be £12 million a day for the NHS (someone brainier than me will have to work that out per year). Hardly a tiny minuscule amount.

Do the maths on the equipment being used, the staff having to be paid. The profit they'll make on top through privatisation. It's a drop in the ocean of the overall costa.

We don't need this anyway as we all know that the NHS is goingt o get the extra money as a result of Brexit.

Johnson would never lie, would he?

The system in the US is insane, but there should be a middle ground.

We can afford private healthcare, but in this country there are millions who couldn’t. Maybe an increase to tax or NI to fund the NHS in higher earners would be a better option? The NHS is in an appalling state but it could turn around with better funding and conditions for staff.

It might make time wasters think twice about turning up to A&E if they had to pay an insurance surcharge but that’s probably the only real benefit of privatising.

@Cheekypeach

Let’s do a bit of maths, there are 1.2 million GP appointments per day (going by pre-pandemic levels). If appointments were £10, that would be £12 million a day for the NHS (someone brainier than me will have to work that out per year). Hardly a tiny minuscule amount.

It is a really tiny amount compared to the costs.

Either you don't understand anything about health care.

Or you do undersatnd and you are just a right wing privtising zealot.

As someone who has private health insurance last it it cost 10k to investigate my back, bladder, hip, knee and spine problems. That are all realted and ignored by the NHS. New year starts in Dec and already £700. And it don't cover everything such as cancer, pregnancy, diabetes, arthritis. So as someone who has it not I don't want a private system in Thai present sense. Insurance would have to massively expand what they cover. We don't have enough private beds to cope with the amount of beds needed for illness in the UK. I would much prefer to stop unnecessary treatment like fertility and then maybe limit stuff like the amount of pregnancies you can have. See people on her that have 5-6 children they think it's all about what they provide but have no care for the amount of extra money they take from the NHS in terms of pregnancy, jabs, kids health checks etc. We need to be more responsible with what we have. The system needs to sharpen up as well I can see plenty of ways the NHS could save money such as building better insulated buildings no just cheap repairs, increasing social care to free up beds, giving GPS control to be able to instruct MRI on referrals rather than wait to speclist to do it. Believe it or not even with private my go can refer me for a MRI they still have to refer me to a private speclist for them to do it even when it apparent I need it. I only get cover though husband's work. And if you look at countries that have the same and not social medical care massive health inequalities. Where as in the UK we don't have that we have a postcode lottery. Which means, not exclusively, the middle class wins more health as they get more money invested mostly. Being in London in a poor areas mean less travel for some for speclist care.

@Cheekypeach

With each of your posts it does sound as though you are speaking from a position of a certain amount of financial privilege.

I will repeat - I earn the National average and not a penny more.

Then either this thread is a wind up (probably) or you are simply talking out of your arse.

If you think that any of those flat fees you mentioned come even close to paying for healthcare then you would be in for a shock. Hospitals often put up notices saying that missed appointments cost the NHS something like £130 (something like that last time I saw it).

It costs about £4000 to give birth in Switzerland op - a couple more thousand for a c section . Your £300 is a drop in the ocean. USA even bill for skin to skin contact !! Be careful what you wish for .
I've just watched dopesick and never been so glad of the nhs .

@AFS1

This is exactly what the Tories want. They have underfunded the NHS for a decade to bring it to its knees in the hope that stupid people will then support their desire to privatise it.

Privatisation is not the answer. It would be a total disaster and would penalise the poorest in society. The NHS needs proper funding. If people stopped voting for the Tories like a bunch of turkeys voting for Christmas, the NHS wouldn’t be in the mess it is.

I agree with AFS1.

@Cheekypeach you say £12 million a day. You're assuming that GP appointment numbers will stay the same. They won't. Because people who can't afford the £10 fee simply won't go to the GP. I'm one of them. I can't afford a spare £10 for a GP appointment, so I just won't visit them when I have a problem, I'll just hope it resolves itself. Given that problem is normally my anaemia getting worse, you can probably guess the outcome of just hoping for the best.
You talk about means testing, you know that it's going to cost more to means test than just giving everyone free at point of access healthcare, right? Oh, I forgot, you're OK, you can afford £10 to visit your GP, so you don't care about the people who will die as a result of your wants.

Let’s do a bit of maths, there are 1.2 million GP appointments per day (going by pre-pandemic levels). If appointments were £10, that would be £12 million a day for the NHS (someone brainier than me will have to work that out per year). Hardly a tiny minuscule amount.

But what if people don't have £10 to spend on a doctors appointment? Why can't we just tax rich people/businesses more?

My brother has health insurance in America, but if he goes to A&E, then he has to pay an excess of $300. So people don't always go A&E immediately, or at all.

Oh, and also, GP surgeries aren't directly owned by the NHS.

I’m type 1 diabetic

In which case your premiums in a privatised system would be sky high. And if you got another chronic condition they’d go up again. I don’t think you’ve thought this through @Cheekypeach.