To say the NHS should be privatised?

[Cheekypeach]

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

I'd rather it wasn't. I'm too poor to pay for it put of pocket and I have too many underlying health conditions for insurance to be reasonably priced.

I supposed I could just die.

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

I've never understood why people imagine you'd get a better service paying a company that wants to make profit.

If I thought you could privatise AND avoid the situation in the US where people have no access to healthcare and overall costs of healthcare would be similar to today or maybe go back to overall spend on healthcare being on a par with the European average then I'd be ok with privatisation.

But I don't see that as possible. It either goes up in price or some are left without healthcare or (as in the US) both of those things.

Indeed. People assume prescription charges will stay the same...They won't.

Companies will charge a fortune for all sorts of drugs, as they do in the US. There will be deregulation resulting in the flogging of drugs or dubious or no benefit. And you'll open the doors to the fears of 'Big Pharma'

There’s a myriad of different healthcare services in between the NHS and the American model.

They aren’t the only two options.

Other countries such as Canada also have free healthcare.

The problem with the MHS is mismanagement, and poor contracts, which were still paying interest on years after the fact.

"Or something like, a £10 fee for GP appointments, £15 for consultant appointments, £300 bill for maternity services/birth etc. Everything having a small charge."

And if you can't afford those "small charges"?

Who is footing the actual bill for these small charges?

@AllThingsServeTheBeam

Oh op. What is your plan then? Go on. Outline it. So you don't want to pay more? As 'you already pay'. So how would privatisation help?

The NHS cannot cope as a public health system any more because people are too unhealthy and living for too long. Too many people need treatment and they need it for many many years. This will only get worse, not better.

Like I just said I think there should be flat fees for services
£10 GP appointment
£15 Hospital appointment
£300 flat fee for maternity services & giving birth on NHS
£20 for broken limb
However I do firmly believe under 18s should be free.

I am disabled

You've really thought this through, haven't you?

Large sections have already been quietly privatised. I found out the other day that out local CAMHS is run by a private company. Tiny print at the bottom of the headed paper... Working in partnership with the NHS. Using the blue NHS logo for the wording

I already pay towards the nhs, why should I pay twice

Well you could pay extra to get a better service, as you say you'd like to.

@00100001

"Or something like, a £10 fee for GP appointments, £15 for consultant appointments, £300 bill for maternity services/birth etc. Everything having a small charge."

And if you can't afford those "small charges"?

Who is footing the actual bill for these small charges?

Perhaps the cost could be spread over a few weeks or discounted for people earning below a certain amount. Means testing etc.

@LouiseBelchersBunnyEars

There’s a myriad of different healthcare services in between the NHS and the American model.

They aren’t the only two options.

Other countries such as Canada also have free healthcare.

The problem with the MHS is mismanagement, and poor contracts, which were still paying interest on years after the fact.

I fully agree.

Why does everyone refer to America? What about all the other countries who operate a mix of state and private provision, mostly very successfully?

@GreenLunchBox

I am disabled

You've really thought this through, haven't you?

I have actually.

I think when people favour privatisation they are picturing a scenario like a knee replacement, being offered wine in your private room post-op. Or perhaps having an appointment with a consultant a couple of days afford referral. They’re the easy bits - any long term stay, ICU, high cost drugs, trauma surgery, neonatal transfers etc would be nothing like the above scenarios. It would be much more expensive than it is now with no guarantee of better quality (like the railways).

OP you're saying this because you can afford it.

Spare a thought to those who can't. Real poor taste post when the cost of living is inflating massively this year already and families are wondering how they're going to stay warm.

@GreenLunchBox

I am disabled

You've really thought this through, haven't you?

There is no arguing with batshit though!

Yes.
I think it should look like the Australian system, free care for those who cannot afford private insurance. It's broken.

@LouiseBelchersBunnyEars

There’s a myriad of different healthcare services in between the NHS and the American model.

They aren’t the only two options.

Other countries such as Canada also have free healthcare.

The problem with the MHS is mismanagement, and poor contracts, which were still paying interest on years after the fact.

Exactly. It’s like when you suggest a presidential system and everyone yells ‘WE DONT WANT A PRESIDENT TRUMP LIKE THE USA’

Like that’s the only option

Waiting times for some types of private care have increased since covid. I'm not sure why people thinks private care would be quicker if EVERYONE is paying privately. Surely you're all still in the same queue

@WhatEvenHappened44

OP you're saying this because you can afford it.

Spare a thought to those who can't. Real poor taste post when the cost of living is inflating massively this year already and families are wondering how they're going to stay warm.

I earn the National average

And people with long term health conditions who need regular appointments? How are they supposed to afford the charges? Especially when their conditions prevent them from working or hinder the ability to earn a reasonable salary.

Such ideas may sound reasonable but they are entirely based on the assumption that people are healthy and only going to the doctors for mundane reasons.

Completely unrealistic and elitist.

Which countdown you think has the best system OP? That’s probably the constructive way to look at it.

As I say, I think the French have a good system.

I was a massive supporter of our system but I’ve seen too many missed or mis- diagnoses now amongst family and friends and can see that the outpatient system is buckling, made worse by GP fund holding, and that was before the pandemic.

There is actually a Health Bill currently going through Parliamentary but I don’t feel optimistic. I’m not at all surprised to read the nursing PP’s post, TBH.

Like I just said I think there should be flat fees for services
£10 GP appointment
£15 Hospital appointment
£300 flat fee for maternity services & giving birth on NHS
£20 for broken limb

...all of these price quotes are drop in the ocean of how much these things actually cost.

£300 bill for maternity services/birth etc

How did you arrive at the figure?

I don't have a spare £300. Should I have given birth at home and bled to death?

I wonder what research you've done as a disabled person? Are you aware of how much your medication would end up costing you?
DD and DH both have pre existing medical problems, meaning we'd be unlikely to get insurance, and any with did would be with extreme premiums that wouldn't be justifiable in the current living cost crisis. £15 for a hospital appointment could cost us £200 a month just for dh and dd, and that's on a good month with appointments. That not including medications, and other services that are used through the nhs (speech and language for dd, physio for dh).
You haven't thought this out at all. You're the exact target that would absolutely suffer through a privatised system.

Have a look at the Swiss model. There are different levels of insurance - private, semi private and basic. Various different insurance companies. Everyone must have health insurance. If you are unemployed/low wage the government helps.
You choose the insurance you want/are willing to pay and you also have a franchise eg £500. Once this is reached because of appointments/treatment your subsequent treatment is basically free/you pay a very small percentage.
Fees are regulated so people cannot be ripped off.
It works, doctors have to provide a good service because patients can choose who they see - at all levels.
It’s not perfect but infinitely better than the NHS. And it’s a halfway house between NHS and complete privatization

@CoconutQueen

I'm a nurse. Yes it should be, not partially but totally. The NHS is a total shambles and not fit for purpose; getting worse and worse every single day.... I am genuinely scared by the corners being cut and how unsafe it is. It's a fucking shambles.

By nursing PP’s post, I mean this one.

Sadly I find that all too believable @CoconutQueen

I’d love to see this debates by ONLY HCPs and then again by ONLY chronically ill patients.