Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say the NHS should be privatised?

702 replies

Cheekypeach · 18/02/2022 18:34

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

OP posts:
Tealightsandd · 19/02/2022 13:51

It's a shame. Personally I'd rather pay higher tax and in return get better public services. Good healthcare, housing, utilities, and a safety net.

Cheaper in the long run too. Poor physical and mental health and badly funded public services cost the taxpayer many billions in direct but also indirect costs.

Tealightsandd · 19/02/2022 13:52

False economy.

granny24 · 19/02/2022 13:56

@Susu49

You realise that the Conservatives have had a long term plan to engineer this exact situation?

They created a white paper setting out the method for doing so around the time they were first elected to government. It went very much like this...Underfund the NHS until it can no longer function and the population feel that privatisation is the only way forward.

Exactly this. Sad to see so many have been fooled.
BeautifulBirds · 19/02/2022 14:04

Very unreasonable. Some of us wouldn't be able to afford the care we need.

SecretSpAD · 19/02/2022 14:38

@drpet49

I have friends who work in the NHS. Management is utterly useless and corrupt. Not interested in change.
Interestingly I had exactly this argument levelled at me this week by a nursing team which had asked for five times the amount of money than I could offer as I have a budget to cover a whole service used by about 3 million people nationally. Their proposal would have worked out at £3000 per patient (niche team but not expensive) and would have stopped funding in other parts of the service and possibly causing people to have a shorter life.

But yeah, I'm the useless and corrupt one.

Gingernaut · 19/02/2022 14:42

Privatised water companies are siphoning water out of vulnerable rivers and are now pouring sewage into our waterways - instead of investing in reservoirs and leak prevention.

Privatised bus companies have shut down routes, reduced bus and driver numbers and have left rural passengers stranded.

Privatised train companies have failed to improve services, have some of the highest fares in Europe and are still using rolling stock that's decades old.

Privatised power companies are hoicking up prices (if they're still in business).

Most, if not all, privatised companies are in foreign hands - I'm paying a French company for my electricity, Japanese, Dutch and Italian transport companies are among those that own in my local train services and Australian and Japanese shareholders profit from my gas payments.

The British should be more than capable of doing some of this shit for ourselves.

As soon as something that is necessary for life and every day living is run for profit, things go wrong.

Not only is profit going to shareholder bonuses, the money is going out of the country to foreign investors - we're being milked like a bloody cow.

LightsoftheNorth · 19/02/2022 15:07

@drpet49

I have friends who work in the NHS. Management is utterly useless and corrupt. Not interested in change.
I wondered when this lazy (and offensive) stereotyping was going to be trotted out.
Cheekypeach · 19/02/2022 15:21

@BeautifulBirds

Very unreasonable. Some of us wouldn't be able to afford the care we need.
That seems to be the refrain here but do you acknowledge the NHS is powered by money? Staff need paying, medicine and equipment costs money? And that that money has to come from somewhere, it can’t be run as a benevolent organisation?
OP posts:
FloBot7 · 19/02/2022 15:58

Yes but by paying through taxation it spreads the burden. You're talking about financially penalising people for their bad fortune. I choose to pay for my contraceptive pill privately because it's convenient. I have a smear when it's due but besides that I haven't needed to use the NHS in well over 10 years. I'm happy for my taxes to help those who haven't been so lucky.

DrBlackbird · 19/02/2022 16:15

Well it’s blatantly clear that the OP is not persuaded by any of these arguments. Which, as have been explained, run far more than ‘some couldn’t pay’. Though isn’t that enough?

Gingernaut all of those are great examples. Even the Tories were muttering about renationalising railways.

Zilla1 · 19/02/2022 16:18

"That seems to be the refrain here but do you acknowledge the NHS is powered by money? Staff need paying, medicine and equipment costs money? And that that money has to come from somewhere, it can’t be run as a benevolent organisation?"

So if the OP is T1D and the last average incremental annual cost of treating T1DM is c£3300? solely for the T1 diabetic condition management then add in whatever additional routine healthcare costs the OP would need to pay for - It seems remarkably altruistic for the OP to be keen to pay based on their most recent post.

Askingforfriend · 19/02/2022 16:22

Yeah don't do this. I live in the US and even in its broken state the NHS is preferable to that.

Susu49 · 19/02/2022 16:57

Do you see people amputating their own limbs in Germany or France?

@cheekypeach are you going to expand on this?

Are you going to actually engage with anyone trying to have a sensible discussion with you? Re your last post - of course the NHS is powered by money, no one has disputed that.

But your only answer (more of a retort really) to people trying to have a discussion with you is some sensational statement about self amputation.

People aren't having a go at you - you've had sympathy from me and others about your frustration, but you're ignoring our replies to double down on what seems to be an emotional response to current difficulties accessing the care we expect.

It's an emotional issue and we all care. Minimal charges at point of access have been suggested before but they won't solve the problems that need fixing. What the NhS needs is proper state investment (whichever model we follow).

I'm genuinely interested in what you think about this.

Cheekypeach · 19/02/2022 17:08

But your only answer (more of a retort really) to people trying to have a discussion with you is some sensational statement about self amputation.

That’s in response to the many posts I’ve had about people dying in the USA. Most posters have used the most extreme (and illogical, we wouldn’t have to copy the USA) example possible, yet I’m being sensationalist apparently 🧐

I’ve responded to say my original OP was poorly worded, rather than fully privatised I meant more of a surcharge/pay as you go type system, subsidised by tax as I acknowledge paying full costs would be completely unaffordable for most. I also said children should be free. I’m not a Tory supporting nasty witch who wants to see others suffer as long as I’m ok and feeling like a first class citizen.

But I still do not believe the NHS can operate in its current form for much longer, I actually think it would be dangerous for it to do so as it creaks at the seams and already provides substandard care.

I do think MN has problems accepting even a small degree of personal responsibility when it comes to health/taxation/social care/etc - I think the views of posters is broadly that nothing is ever anyone’s fault, their every issue requires expensive state funded ‘support’ even if their situation was a life choice. But I’ll park that as it opens a can of worms.

That said the tories are bastards that could absolutely find more money for the NHS if needed. But I’m not convinced that throwing public money at it is the answer as it doesn’t encourage even a small degree of personal responsibility to stay in good health as much as you reasonably can.

OP posts:
longwayoff · 19/02/2022 17:10

What's stopping you? You're not obliged to use the NHS. Get your BUPA and off you go. But don't get a serious and/or long term illness. If you do, you'll soon find yourself thinking what a brilliant idea the NHS is.

BodgertheJogger · 19/02/2022 17:16

[quote Jasmin82]@Cheekypeach you say £12 million a day. You're assuming that GP appointment numbers will stay the same. They won't. Because people who can't afford the £10 fee simply won't go to the GP. I'm one of them. I can't afford a spare £10 for a GP appointment, so I just won't visit them when I have a problem, I'll just hope it resolves itself. Given that problem is normally my anaemia getting worse, you can probably guess the outcome of just hoping for the best.
You talk about means testing, you know that it's going to cost more to means test than just giving everyone free at point of access healthcare, right? Oh, I forgot, you're OK, you can afford £10 to visit your GP, so you don't care about the people who will die as a result of your wants.[/quote]
I agree with this and I would do the same personally. People can't assume that a fee would be beneficial in separating the people that have genuine problems and not.
It would work in some cases but not many.

Wheresmywoolyjumpers · 19/02/2022 17:17

already provides substandard care.

Does it? Yes, waits are long, yes some practice is better than others, but we also have excellent care by some of the best health staff in the world.

But I’m not convinced that throwing public money at it is the answer as it doesn’t encourage even a small degree of personal responsibility to stay in good health as much as you reasonably can.

FFS. Yes it is your own fault if you get cancer, have an accident, inherited a genetic condition. There is an easy way to fix the NHS. Give it more money, fund more places for study for health care practitioners.

Brefugee · 19/02/2022 17:22

Lol! long way from treating staff well and fairly.

@Alexandra2001 what do you think "Retention" means?

Autumn42 · 19/02/2022 17:31

I think you have to appreciate that a lot of free overtime and hard work gets put in by staff because they’re proud of being part of something so special. I’m not saying staff wouldn’t want to go the extra mile for people at difficult times of their lives but if it were essentially just a business then think it would end up costing proportionately far more than at the moment as staff wouldn’t be so inclined put in all that free time and effort.

Loopytiles · 19/02/2022 17:33

Why do you think privatising would help?

IMO the problem is that we’re not spending enough on health or social services. Countries with better services, eg Sweden, France, Germany, spend much more.

Cheekypeach · 19/02/2022 17:45

@Wheresmywoolyjumpers

already provides substandard care.

Does it? Yes, waits are long, yes some practice is better than others, but we also have excellent care by some of the best health staff in the world.

But I’m not convinced that throwing public money at it is the answer as it doesn’t encourage even a small degree of personal responsibility to stay in good health as much as you reasonably can.

FFS. Yes it is your own fault if you get cancer, have an accident, inherited a genetic condition. There is an easy way to fix the NHS. Give it more money, fund more places for study for health care practitioners.

A&Es are absolute carnage and quite scary places due to the number of drunks and druggies there. And the number of people who could probably have gone to the GP instead but faced a week long wait.
OP posts:
Alexandra2001 · 19/02/2022 17:56

@Brefugee

Lol! long way from treating staff well and fairly.

@Alexandra2001 what do you think "Retention" means?

ha ha probably the same meaning as being a condescending arse?
Brefugee · 19/02/2022 18:12

since everyone is ignoring my comment: there will be no European-style privatisation. The government has committed itself to letting the US Healthcare companies take what they want from the NHS.

As an aside: several years ago the German healthcare system introduced a €10 charge the first time you went to your doctor within one quarter. It was dropped pretty quickly because:

  1. the administration took up too many resources: if you went to the GP, then later in the quarter you went to another type of doctor (OBGYN, dentist etc) you had to go back to the GP and get a receipt to take to the next doctor. GPs didn't issue them automatically because of the lack of resources.
  2. people worried about the price and they went to fewer consultations

In the end it raised far less money than economists anticipated, and the administrative costs were out of proportion.

Since people asked about retention. One of the problems, as i understand it, is that people leave the NHS in droves. So as well as a recruitment problem, they have a problem hanging on to the staff they do have. One of the ways to help stem that is to make the NHS a more attractive place to work. (this is an issue facing many firms/industries at the moment - staff retention is a massive hot potato)

JimmyDurham · 19/02/2022 18:44

@Cheekypeach

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?
Yes, but what do you actually mean by "privatised"?
velvet24 · 19/02/2022 18:47

Yes needs to be im afraid, it has run its course and cannot cope :(