To say the NHS should be privatised?

[Cheekypeach]

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

I pressed yanbu by mistake. OP, try living abroad for a while and find out how much other people have to pay, and for services that are far below the NHS.

I don't think privatisation will help with staff retention. For a start, the companies will be running for profit and will start cutting corners to make that profit anyway. Understaffing and lack of resources will still be an issue but due to profits coming out instead of money coming in. For a second thing, I can't imagine many nurses or doctors being able to cope with suddenly having to turn patients away because they don't have the insurance or funds. It's hard enough dealing with patients who can't be saved but at least they know they did everything they could. It would grind them down until they leave if they're turning away people they could help.

It's worth comparing how much is spent on average each year on health care in different countries.

In 2019, the United States had the highest per capita health expenditure among at $10,948

In 2019, the UK spent $4,5001.1 per person on healthcare.

Privatisation does not mean efficiency or value for money. It can mean those swanky high end hospitals for the profitable parts of medicine, for those who can afford the insurance but that is far from the whole story.

It means suffering and deprivation for those who can't. Health care emergencies cause around 66.5% of bankruptcies in the US.

I've looked into the cost of health insurance for myself and my partner which we would need (post bloody brexit) to live in Spain. It's totally prohibitive.

Well, imagining if it was privatised, that’ll be me dead then. I won’t be able to afford to pay for my chemotherapy or the cancer surgery I’m due later this year. I’m on sick pay which is due to run out in 3 month then I’ll be on SSP and I won’t be able to afford health insurance, although I’m pretty sure pre-existing conditions won’t be covered.

Not RTF, but what comes of the people who can not afford private health care?

@XenoBitch

They die.

Diabetes of all kinds is the seventh biggest killer in the USA and that's partly to do with late diagnosis and the inability to afford insulin.

Insurance companies are expensive middle men

@velvet24

Yes needs to be im afraid, it has run its course and cannot cope :(

It cannot cope because its been underfunded for years.

Like any asset, it needs money spent on it, if not, it falls down.

YABU
You may be in position to afford it. Go private if you want faster service.
Many of us can't afford it... should we be left with no treatment for cancer and many other illnesses...

When statutory services are outsourced to commercial enterprises they get worse. Profit comes before people and corners are cut way worse. Those areas already outsourced look shiny on the surface but don’t offer good care. You will get an even worse post code lottery. And, if you have to pay for health care what about the people that can’t afford it? I know loads of people with teeth issues that can’t get in with an NHS dentist and can’t afford private.

Oh. And the bits of the NHS I work in are working well. Offering a great service as efficiently as we can. You only hear the times it goes wrong - not the millions of people that are helped and healed each year.

I think a lot of you also get in as well in European countries the standard of living is better.
Working people aren't penalised like in the uk. There's childcare subsidies etc

This isn't the case in the uk meaning even basic healthcare insurance would be costly wages aren't increasing and people are having to choose between eating and heating why add on healthcare?

It would only work if wages were raised and the cost of living significantly decreased

would only work if wages were raised and the cost of living significantly decreased

Alternatively, affordable stable housing - including lots of social housing. Because employers, particularly small businesses, can only raise wages by so much and it still wouldn't keep up with the cost of living. Oh and people who are too ill or disabled to work matter too.

The public health housing and homelessness emergency costs the taxpayer many many billions. On direct costs like expensive (but crappy) homeless accommodation and high private rent housing benefit bill. But also indirectly too - including impact on health (physical and mental)...and the resulting heavy demand on the healthcare system.

No not at all! I have just got back from Las Vegas last night and my husband got food poisoning. He was so dehydrated we went to the ER. They were fantastic with him checked him over, gave him IV fluids to rehydrate him. We were there 2 hours and the bill was $3500!! Luckily we didn't have to pay it they only asked for a donation of what we could afford as we were tourists. Can you imaging being in casualty fir a couple of hours snd have a bill of thousands???!!!!!

There was a charity drive for a tv for the children's ward.

They raised a good sum and got a good tv.

The PFI legacy contractors quoted more than the tv was worth to put the thing on the wall.

Different departments and wards, in what should be one organisation, are being billed for laundry, beds, uniforms, changing light bulbs, making repairs and interpreting.

It's not in my team's budget to call maintenance to sort out the window blinds.

I brought my own needle and thread to repair the vertical blinds.

This is a farce.

@Gingernaut What your describing is what happens when you privatise the NHS.
My DD needed to order some equipment for a client recently, 3 items, all delivered by the same company in the same van to the same address BUT each with a separate delivery charge of £40 per item...... she questioned this and was told that company had the lowest overal prices inc the delivery...
These private companies are just ripping off the nhs and the tax payer.

I work for the Probation Service. I’m surprised there hasn’t been more press coverage about what has happened within the Justice system in the last few years.

It was part-privatised and it was so shambolic that this year it was re-integrated into the public sector again. Millions (probably billions) of pounds of taxpayers money was wasted. And I don’t know anyone I work with, who has seen what we’ve seen, that would agree with privatisation of essential public services.

Companies will always put their profits first, over and above the service they should be providing. And you shouldn’t prioritise profit over public protection, in the same way as you shouldn’t prioritise profit over public health.

In the case of Probation it tuned out rehabilitating sex offenders was quite expensive (who knew?!) I’d imagine it would be the same for chemotherapy/expensive surgeries/chronic conditions. And that will eat into profit margins.

Privatising health services would just create a race to the bottom.

@Liondolphin just to add to my previous post, I am currently receiving treatment for breast cancer and I agree with you 100%…I can’t fault any of the service I’ve received from the NHS, it’s been absolutely amazing, from initial diagnosis to where I am now, (just over halfway through chemo with surgery scheduled for mid May). Every single person has been brilliant, my care has been second to none, and I’ll shout the praises to anyone who will listen. That’s why I’m so worried about it disappearing 😞

TwoBigNoisyBoys

So sorry to hear you are having a hard time but glad you are getting good care. It makes such a difference at times like these.

As a service user I’ve also had excellent care on several occasions. All in Wales where very little is outsourced, unlike England. I think in surveys, usually over 90% of service users are happy with their care in the NHS. We generally get 100% in my service which I’m super proud, of but my colleagues and I work extra hours all the time. We do it because we love our job - we love what we do. The NHS is filled with people like us. There are some slackers but they are the very tiny minority. There are some areas with toxic cultures but again it’s the minority. I hate the idea of throwing it all away to start something worse. Build on and learn from what has gone on before. That’s how we have an amazing department. If something goes wrong we learn from it. We constantly work to improve what we do. We are not the minority in the NHS.

Yabu putting profits first won't be a better model and paying for healthcare bankrupts people in a America. Poor people need healthcare too!
Something needs to happen but this isn't it

@madelinemouse I'd forgotten about the Probation Service though the NAO report a few years ago made for reading. Third sector involvement and an umbrella of a few private firms like DWP was meant to use for employment support, was it? Failed so miserably that the practicalities outweighed the political pain involved in insourcing the work. Still privatisation, eh.

@Liondolphin thank you for your good wishes, and yes you’re spot on…I’m in Wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 x

I used to agree with your DH. Then I moved to France where the system is semi public and semi private, and frankly it knocks spots off the NHS.

@babyjellyfish

I used to agree with your DH. Then I moved to France where the system is semi public and semi private, and frankly it knocks spots off the NHS.

But that’s not why Frances system has a better outcome than the UKs. The primary reason why is because the French Government, (even with the cost shared by being semi private), still spends on average 20% more per person on their healthcare each year via the public arm of their health system than the U.K. does.

Because the U.K. is refusing to spend enough over head to actually provide a decent service!

What I don’t get is why people think a private NHS would work better.
Companies that would sell the NHS equivalent (let’s say the cataract operation that are now done by private companies btw) are in there for the money. They are not charities, philanthropists.
What makes people think they will provide more than the bare minimum?

What makes people think it will cost less money? I mean the whole aim for those companies to give dividends to their shareholders. Do you think they will suddenly be generous and give us outstanding care for little money?

We will get what we are paying for. If the givernment doesn’t want to pay for the NHS, no private company will ever so that for us. I’d say that actually it will get worse (because they will want to make a as big profit as they can!)

So I have to say, I don’t get it.
Campaign for more money for the NHS in a fully public system. Ye si can understand.
But wanting a private system? What on Earth do you think it will give is?