To say the NHS should be privatised?

[Cheekypeach]

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

I will kill myself if this happens.
I am a carer for a szichophrenic relative. I can not cope with a privatised system that will limit care on the ability to pay with co-pays. I can't care for someone who is hard enough to get to a Dr when it is free. I can not have the crisis team visiting and worry about how I or he is going to pay for it. It would break me totally.

@Peoniesandcream

No it shouldn't be privatised. I do think they should stop services which aren't life or death though, such as IVF and cosmetic surgery etc.

Why?

I had two friends who had breast cancer and for whom the treatment included double mastectomy and reconstruction. Reconstruction is cosmetic surgery, but according to you it shouldn't be done!!

I also knew a teenage girl who needed facial reconstruction following a serious car accident. That could also be described as cosmetic surgery, but according to you she should not have had it. The NHS should simply have left her as a barely recognisable mess with a crumpled face?

Think before you post such bilge.

And rich people parroting that we need to take better care of ourselves have zero understanding. I am carer for a relative with sczichophrenia and a DP with a genetic illness.
Are they both supposed to follow some kooky diet to miraculously cure them?

Why stop at healthcare? Why not privatise all schools so they can improve? Sunny uplands with happier teachers, pupils and parents.
And shareholders.

Police and army shouldn't be disadvantaged by being tied to a socialist delivery model. Privatise the lot. Most unfair.

BBC looks doomed, unless it can successfully argue for an advertising funding model then the populist press and media groups will tell the government to back down to avoid competition.

@Monopolyiscrap It’s not just about appointment time. Not at all. I saw my surgeon privately for 5 minutes last week. I’ve seen my long-standing NHS endocrinologist longer than that every time (for a standard yearly check-up which really just hinges on the tests that follow the appointment).

While you have a point about staff shortages, the doctor/medical staff issue would be improved if the offering was better - which it could be with a subsidised private system - because it would attract more talent. Furthermore, better leadership could be attracted too - its woeful at present and NHS surgeons and contractors have admitted that to me.

@Monopolyiscrap

I will kill myself if this happens. I am a carer for a szichophrenic relative. I can not cope with a privatised system that will limit care on the ability to pay with co-pays. I can't care for someone who is hard enough to get to a Dr when it is free. I can not have the crisis team visiting and worry about how I or he is going to pay for it. It would break me totally.

You wouldn’t be worrying about paying though - as the OP and others have said, there are models where contributions vary to balance out so everybody can afford care.

@Topseyt Reconstructive surgery isn't cosmetic, it's medical. They're both plastic surgery but one is about restoring function or appearance, the other is to change the appearance through choice.

@ABitOfAShitShow you won't attract more talent. By the way, my relative has a fucking amazing Dr. I do not think he would be alive otherwise.
The idea that privatisation attracts talent has proven to be false. I have already posted about the situation in Leicester. My DO has a genetic illness and attended the amazing eye treatment centre there. It was recognised internationally as a centre of excellence. It was privatised and taken over by Circle. The top Consultants left and now it struggles to attract the staff to do totally routine stuff.

@ABitOfAShitShow of course I would be paying. I work. You think all carers are stuck at home all day? I would pay. My DP would pay for his genetic illness.
Its just too much.
And all so rich people can make more money.
I have seen how privatisation destroyed a centre of excellence in Leicester. This would just make things worse, but rich people would make lots of money.
It would be the PPE scandal all over agin.

Ok, I’m bowing out (not flouncing - just don’t want to seem rude if I don’t reply after being active for a bit ). It’s an emotive subject and I’m done.

@Zilla1

Why stop at healthcare? Why not privatise all schools so they can improve? Sunny uplands with happier teachers, pupils and parents. And shareholders.

Police and army shouldn't be disadvantaged by being tied to a socialist delivery model. Privatise the lot. Most unfair.

BBC looks doomed, unless it can successfully argue for an advertising funding model then the populist press and media groups will tell the government to back down to avoid competition.

Yep lots of money to be made. Maybe Tesco could run our local schools? ASDA our police force? Or even better G4 who already made a total mess of our prisons. After all there is money to be made for rich people.

OP I agree - the NHS is not serving staff or users well. It has many great elements but it is an inefficient inflexible behemoth that doesn't care about staff or users. Most people working in it are great and most believe passionately in caring without worrying about cost- I think that culture is amazing and hard to get in other ways. That's what we should celebrate and be proud of. Working people to death to provide a shit service and charging nurses to park at work is not.

I get so frustrated by the narrative that the choices are the NHS or the US system, they are both absolute extremes. Many countries have great hybrid models. I've lived in Switzerland and Australia and both models protect the downside and the poorest while giving users some choice. There are many other examples. The NHS should be scrapped and replaced with a different model.

@ABitOfAShitShow because I have examples of NHS privatisation that have been a total disaster and prove what you are saying is wrong? Bye then.

I think it should be topped up - means tested, though. Because what worked previously is unsustainable with massively increased population and medical advances which inevitably mean more treatments.

@familychallenge those systems all cost far far more than the NHS. You can not spend what we spend on the NHS and expect the service that cou8ntries get that spend far more.

In 2017, the UK spent £2,989 per person on healthcare, which was around the median for members of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development: OECD (£2,913 per person).

However, of the G7 group of large, developed economies, UK healthcare spending per person was the second-lowest, with the highest spenders being France (£3,737), Germany (£4,432) and the United States (£7,736).

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29

[quote Monopolyiscrap]@ABitOfAShitShow of course I would be paying. I work. You think all carers are stuck at home all day? I would pay. My DP would pay for his genetic illness.
Its just too much.
And all so rich people can make more money.
I have seen how privatisation destroyed a centre of excellence in Leicester. This would just make things worse, but rich people would make lots of money.
It would be the PPE scandal all over agin.[/quote]
It’s like you’re not reading my words or the many explanations of other models that are means-tested.

Anyway, rest assured, I may have a different opinion to you but I have experience of chronic illness, a gene mutation, surgeries…and I haven’t always had insurance (through work). I also have a parent who is terminally ill after years of multiple illnesses and surgeries who has only ever had NHS care. So I do understand why you have strong feelings. I just disagree with your view.

NHS nurse and i don't think it should be it needs a massive overhaul and rethink of how money is spent and in some cases privatising things that's have already been outsourced. For example, currently, every time we have a covid+ in a bay or room, we need to have it deep cleaned, that deep clean is outsourced to a private company, that private company chargers £200 per bedspace, in a bay of 6 beds, requiring a deep clean, that's £1200. Every time 1 patient tests positive. Thats one small example one a ridiculously long list of wasted money. Rehire domestics into the NHS instead of private companies and it would save money in the long run. So many services are now outsourced to private firms and its increased the costs. However, the aging population and the health needs need to be considered. We place elderly in care facilities that cost a small fortune (over £1000 per week in some cases) where staff there cant perform basic procedures such as replacing feeding tubes or catheters, administering IV antibiotics for UTI's etc so they end up back in hospital, again, deprivatising these facilities would end up saving money in the long run.

[quote Monopolyiscrap]@ABitOfAShitShow because I have examples of NHS privatisation that have been a total disaster and prove what you are saying is wrong? Bye then.[/quote]
Eh? What on earth are you on about? You haven’t proved anything.

I was just trying to find a nice way of saying I’m bored of the thread and I’m going to bed!

[quote TiredSloth]@Susu49 she’s a little fighter and you would never know that she only has half a heart if you met her!

The thing is she goes to a tiny village school and she is one of 3 single ventricle children there! One of the other families is much better known in the community so all local donations would go to them. Without the NHS I have no idea what I would do. She has had and still receives the most amazing care.[/quote]
@TiredSloth
I bet she is 💪 if you're anything like my mum then she'll get it from you - I bet you've fought her corner more times than you count.
Astonished you have 3 children with the same condition in one school!

No. 1 cause of bankruptcy in the US?

Medical expenses.

I’m a midwife and never thought I’d say this but yes.

The NHS right now is TERRIFYING! If people could see just how bad things were behind the scenes they would be horrified. It’s not safe and something needs to change fast.

@maiafawnly excellent example

Pp are right in that there are various different models of public/private healthcare and not just the NHS/US model.

However, until there is a drastic shift in goals and business strategies by those in power (not simply government, but businesses and private individuals with an eye to their own investments who lobby government officials), then we're very unlikely to end up with a moderate system. Any moderation applied will be a stepping stone to the US model because as a pp pointed out that is where the financial interests of those in power lie.

And it's naive to think we could vote against these damaging policies because the last few years have shown how little the government can be trusted - and how trusting voters can be.

That's why defenders of the NHS often find themselves resisting any move towards any form of (overt) privatisation. It isn't a refusal to see that things could he done differently but a fundamental - and legitimate- mistrust of the government in both the short and long term.

*be

The mistrust of the government goes beyond acknowledged plans for the NHS / their dislike of nationalisation, but is rooted in their socio-economic policies across the board.

Anyone can see that when services are cut to the extent they have been, leaving so many in extremity and without support, that selling off to businesses isn't for altruistic reasons - it's a cop out.

@Cheekypeach

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

Who's stopping you pay for private care now?