To say the NHS should be privatised?

[Cheekypeach]

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

I agree the privatisation that has already happened is a disaster. Cleaners come in at set times dictated by the contract. Hospitals used to have a team of cleaners that were far more responsive to the needs of the hospital as they could be flexible.
Food is delivered at set times and trays collected at set times. Even if patients need far more time to eat the food than the contract allows. Again when staff are in house they can be far more flexible.

When the privatisation that has already happened in the NHS causes issues, why would more privatisation work?

Look at where we are with energy prices. The big 6 firms made profits of over £1 billion and are still claiming they HAVE to raise prices. Poor people be damned, their shareholders expect big profits so that's what they'll get.

Absolutely. The Tories said they'd be able to cut VAT on domestic fuel if we left the EU. That was in the good old days when we never gave energy prices a second thought. We left the EU and are facing an unprecedented worldwide energy price hike (54%ffs) and yet they've refused to cut the VAT. Strangely EU countries have done so🤔

No it shouldn't be privatised. I do think they should stop services which aren't life or death though, such as IVF and cosmetic surgery etc.

@Monopolyiscrap

I agree the privatisation that has already happened is a disaster. Cleaners come in at set times dictated by the contract. Hospitals used to have a team of cleaners that were far more responsive to the needs of the hospital as they could be flexible. Food is delivered at set times and trays collected at set times. Even if patients need far more time to eat the food than the contract allows. Again when staff are in house they can be far more flexible.

When the privatisation that has already happened in the NHS causes issues, why would more privatisation work?

I feel so sorry for the cleaners. No NHS pension; shit pay and conditions. Not considered part of the team. Usually ethnic minorities.

@Peoniesandcream

No it shouldn't be privatised. I do think they should stop services which aren't life or death though, such as IVF and cosmetic surgery etc.

So a woman who's had her breasts removed because of cancer shouldn't have reconstructive surgery? You sound lovely

To be honest this is a moot point because there is private health care out there already. If you can afford to/want to pay for a better service then do it? There’s a lot of people that would quite simply just die if the nhs were extensively privatised.

@Peoniesandcream

No it shouldn't be privatised. I do think they should stop services which aren't life or death though, such as IVF and cosmetic surgery etc.

Cosmetic surgery includes surgery after traffic accidents and cancer. I strictly speaking have had cosmetic surgery after a major burn as a child. I had a skin graft to improve the awful appearance on my legs of a major burn.

I voted YABU as I don't think it should be privatised. I think the government should still control the NHS, but I do think some services should incur a cost at point of service. Not A&E. But I think as painful as it is for many of us, we have had too long as consumers - so much money on fripperies and we should focus our personal spending on what really matters in life. That also means safeguarding our own health and not living for things but actually being aware of our own mortality a bit more.
However, I don't know how you'd protect the poorer in society without leaving the door open to those who just don't want to pay., well I mean you could run it of your NI number but I have no idea about the costs of that.
I think all the treatments that are to protect 'psychological damage' such as pinning ears back/rhinoplasty/breast enlargement etc should be paid only - might actually prevent psychological damage as we are currently effectively saying about this and other conditions "yes, this is a terrible way to look and must be fixed or you'll feel depressed every day". In actual fact we should be saying - you look great and if you really can't see that then you'll have to pay.
A sea change is needed but it will be incredibly difficult to implement.

Should do something similar to other European countries where everyone (except pensioners) pay £1 for hospital attendance/dr appointments.

@DarwinsNaturalSelection you will just end up with more people at A and E and a lot more people needing more extensive treatment because they did not get treatment early enough.
Look at the amount of people who do not go to the Drs with cancer symptoms and end up with more widespread cancer. Or people with serious mental health problems who only seek help when they are at the point of killing themselves.
It is cheaper for the NHS for people to get treatment very early on with illnesses. Better for women to go for cervical screenings and get pre-cancerous cells treated than have to get cervical cancer treated.

Many many people already avoid going to the Dr. A payment would increase that. And so many people are struggling with the rise in the cost of living, and no not all the poorest either.

@popcorn925

Should do something similar to other European countries where everyone (except pensioners) pay £1 for hospital attendance/dr appointments.

It would be a £1 for about two months. By year 5 we would all be paying £100 plus every time.

I also think suicides would increase.

@popcorn925

Should do something similar to other European countries where everyone (except pensioners) pay £1 for hospital attendance/dr appointments.

In the Netherlands it was something like 20 Euros, and you claim it back from insurance.

I would settle for a European model of insurance. But who believes we’ll get that? It’ll be American shareholders profiteering off increasing poverty.

I have a lot of experience with specialists/hospitals on both the NHS and with private insurance. Unfortunately.

Putting aside all other things (politics, free vs subsidised, NHS funding/management, etc.) and just focusing on the ‘service’…

If you have no experience of private care, you can’t argue that they couldn’t possibly provide a better experience than the NHS. Honestly. It’s worlds away (even with the same doctor/surgeon). Waiting times and nice hospitals aside, there’s a lot more attention and a lot less stress - which can be really important amidst illness or when recovering from surgery, etc.

You really don’t want the US system. I’m a Brit in the US. The services are exceptional, if you can afford them. I can book directly with specialists and have never had to wait longer than a couple of weeks for an appointment. I am proximate to NYC and facilities such as Hospital for Special Surgery, Weill-Cornell and
MSK cancer center are some of the best hospitals in the world.

People on very low incomes are actually decently covered by Medicaid. It’s the people on average salaries who really struggle.

Want to know how much it costs for the best in US healthcare for a family of four? $60k a year. The NHS must be saved, no matter what.

Im a dentist And have been seeing what the limited nhs dentistry has done to peoples teeth because they can’t afford care and there aren’t enough nhs places.

You don’t want that for cancer care, trauma, arthritis, diabetes etc.

MrsBDefinitely

Im a dentist And have been seeing what the limited nhs dentistry has done to peoples teeth because they can’t afford care and there aren’t enough nhs places.

You don’t want that for cancer care, trauma, arthritis, diabetes etc.“

Why are so many practices opting out of NHS provision?

There's a real lack of awareness as to how healthcare is managed outside the UK. It isn't a matter of full of state driven free at point of access (NHS) or the US style insurance driven approach.

Firstly, the USA is a very unique style. There is public health coverage: 'medicare' - very basic coverage for those who can't afford insurance. Private coverage, either purchased by an individual or through an employer. They are complex, costly and often restrictive plans.. it's a dreadful system if you ask me. Healthcare can and does bankrupt people.

The UK is the other end of the spectrum - free to all, at point of access funded by UK N.I contributions. Pioneering when first launched and truthfully a fantastic provision which did the UK proud. Today, it's a different world - the NHS can't cater for the needs of today's population or it's health needs. It's not evolved to keep up with the times and is no longer fit for purpose. Outcomes are poor compared to comparable countries, services are limited. It's not a great place to get care and must be a thankless place to work.

Universal healthcare is possible on a privatized basis and it doesn't mean people who can't afford it have to pay out of pocket for all care. If you are in France it's funded through social security contributions much like the UK. The state sets the contribution levels (according to income) and decides what is reimbursable. Employees and employers pay social security contributions (employers a higher %). Between 70-100% of the cost is refunded depending on what it is - long term conditions are 100% for example. Supplemental insurance to cover the out of pocket amount employers are obliged by law to offer. The result is very few people choose or need private insurance. France has many more doctors, possibly owing to the fact medical school is free and doesn't require a student doctor to take on crippling debts.. making the profession more accessible.

A similar concept is applied in a multitude of countries, and honestly I can't think of any (other than the USA) at least in the developed world where healthcare that isn't state owned / controlled means you have to get your cheque book out to access care.

It doesn't help the UK to be so vested in maintaining the NHS as it is.. there are better ways and we shouldn't be afraid of change nor look to the USA as an ''example'' of what a different way could be.

@ABitOfAShitShow

I have a lot of experience with specialists/hospitals on both the NHS and with private insurance. Unfortunately.

Putting aside all other things (politics, free vs subsidised, NHS funding/management, etc.) and just focusing on the ‘service’…

If you have no experience of private care, you can’t argue that they couldn’t possibly provide a better experience than the NHS. Honestly. It’s worlds away (even with the same doctor/surgeon). Waiting times and nice hospitals aside, there’s a lot more attention and a lot less stress - which can be really important amidst illness or when recovering from surgery, etc.

That is about the number of patients they have to see. If a private Dr has 30 minutes with each patient, and an NHS one has 8 minutes, you will notice the difference.

But we have a shortage of Drs in the UK. It is physically impossible for everyone to get 30 minutes. Unless lots of people get no appointments as they can not afford them.

FYI for people with no experience of the current UK private health model - it’s not as simple as saying ‘well if you don’t want the NHS, you pay and the rest of us can keep it’.

For people with pre-existing conditions, it’s near impossible to get an insurance policy that covers them (and it would be a crazy high premium if you did) - unless you have a policy through work. There’s a big difference between being able to afford a policy (without PE conditions) and being able to pay outright for surgery/procedures.

Policies don’t cover emergency care. You could self-fund, in theory, but there are very few private urgent care departments and it is incredibly expensive.

None of this would be the case if we had a model similar to some European countries previously mentioned. ALL care would be covered by one higher-standard model. And nobody would miss out because it’s modelled to work for all income levels.

@Pinkyxx You are assuming we are ignorant. We are not. France also pays way more for their healthcare. If we did too the NHS would be in much better shape.
You keep comparing systems that get a lot more money. It is like comparing the local state school with Eton and saying - look if we privatised all schools all schools could be like Eton. When that is obvious rubbish.
We need more tax to go to the NHS.

@ABitOfAShitShow so everyone has to pay more so you can afford private health insurance?

@Susu49

You realise that the Conservatives have had a long term plan to engineer this exact situation?

They created a white paper setting out the method for doing so around the time they were first elected to government. It went very much like this...Underfund the NHS until it can no longer function and the population feel that privatisation is the only way forward.

EXACTLY - Engineer a situation through under funding that leads to a very unhappy and desperate population who start thinking a privatised service has to be better.

Covid and brexit have helped this no end. Wasting billions on useless contracts with cronies, and losing thousands of EU national staff, joint EU/~UK research projects now endangered.

No, privatisation is not the answer.

100% YANBU. It should have been privatized a very long time ago.

Completely and utterly unreasonable and that's a gross understatement 😡