To say the NHS should be privatised?

[Cheekypeach]

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

@Cheekypeach

Why is everyone so obsessed with USA? It isn’t the only other country in the world?

Totally understanding your frustration with this.

Yes, people (myself included) have mentioned other countries but there’s still an overwhelming majority of posters opposing it who are arguing against it based on healthcare in the US.

Don’t assume private is automatically better. I live in the USA - I’ve been trying for weeks to get a prescription refilled. When I had a something that needed investigation I had to wait a couple of months for a test that you’re supposed to get in less than two weeks. I had to have a test repeated because the hospital failed to record any results - and then they tried to charge me for both tests. I was seeing a medical practitioner who left - the practice continued charging me even though they were unable to allocate me a new practitioner. I had some treatment that I had to pay for out of pocket and claimed it back from my insurance- it’s taken 3 months and they’ve only just reimbursed me, and for less than the agreed amount so I need to raise a dispute. And all this is despite having supposedly excellent insurance.

@Pookielumchum

I'm not saying the NHS isn't underfunded. Just saying there are other options.

True there are other options. But it’s rather like you have a car and the #1 reason why it keeps stalling and leaving you stranded is because you’re not putting enough petrol in it, or charging it enough.

Do you fix the problem, or start looking at “other options” like the massive expense of selling your car and buying another car?

It’s two different viewpoints. I think it’s not only ethically better to work with what we have as in a universal health system and fix the known problem of underfunding than to raze it to ground and start over, with a potentially less ethical nonuniversal health system that usually ends up costing more per capita in the long run.

The NHS is massive and performs well in terms of efficiency and cost effectiveness in comparison to other health systems. It only falls short in outcomes and several studies have concluded that its due to lack of funding, which has directly caused the lack of surgeries, GPs, consultant doctors, nurses, therapists, equipment like MRIs and ICU ventilators, hospitals & hospital beds per capita, etc.

@Pinkyxx The UK spend way less than most other countries on healthcare.
I do not know why people expect a Rolls Royce service when they will only pay for an old bicycle.

@Cheekypeach

Why is everyone so obsessed with USA? It isn’t the only other country in the world?

It's a wealthy developed country that doesn't need to let people die when they can't afford medical care. Despite that, it does. It's basically the worst case scenario of where privatisation could lead us and I fully believe it's where we would end up.

Look at where we are with energy prices. The big 6 firms made profits of over £1 billion and are still claiming they HAVE to raise prices. Poor people be damned, their shareholders expect big profits so that's what they'll get.

The government would do nothing to protect us. Look at the PPE scandal, money given to lots of wealthy friends for PPE that did not meet basic standards.
We would end up getting terrible care and paying a lot more for it.

As someone who lived under a private healthcare system and was fortunate enough to have parents that could afford the best medical care- so I never though about it, be very careful what you wish for.

I loved that I could get a walk in 30 minute appointment anytime - usually same day guaranteed to see my GP for anything. But when I realised that the doctor is rarely fully booked because people can't afford to see the doctor as it is crazy expensive - it didnt seem worth it. It didn't seem worth it when I found out children were going blind from simple treatable infections because their parents couldnt afford for them to see a doctor, or buy medication or both.

Wait until you develop a medical condition- easy to call for privatisation when you are fit and healthy. Good luck getting any insurance then. We've just had energy prices double or triple for some people because the government has put corporate profits ahead of people - you don't think they won't view your cancer as an opportunity to cash in?

My recent op would've cost £16,000 if in USA. Protect the NHS and blooming vote in someone/a party that will fund it properly

And you do know that with insurance policies there is always a co pay? So you buy an annual insurance policy and then every visit or test you also have to pay part of the cost.
If you are healthy and are going to the GP once a year for something minor, the cost will be low. But get something more serious and the costs will soon ratchet up.
My DPs family who are abroad and have the same genetic condition he has pay a lot more for worse treatment.

Totally understanding your frustration with this.

Yes, people (myself included) have mentioned other countries but there’s still an overwhelming majority of posters opposing it who are arguing against it based on healthcare in the US.

Because thats the only “option” we will be given - once conditions have been manipulated and ‘nudged’ so that the correct answer required will be supplied by the populace. What, do you think we left the EU so that we could continue the European model of giving a shit about public health, public services and the demos in general? We left the EU so that our government could follow the American Dream, of letting their cronies in big business fleece the little people for as much as they could get.

I absolutely think there should be nominal charges. Anyone not on benefits / chronic illness should pay a set amount each year or pay per visit - say, £10 per GP appointment. Emergency medicine should remain free and the NHS should also stop offering some elective treatments for free and ask for contributions

Majority on benefits would not be able to afford £10

What if they needed to go twice in one week for different issues

I have a child with complex congenital heart defects (half a heart) and the care she has received from the NHS has been absolutely outstanding. She has had open heart surgery and will need more. There’s absolutely no way I would be able to pay for her treatment (would it be hundreds of thousands of pounds?) so would she be left to die?

I can also sense a lot of venom for people with type 2 diabetes for some reason.

@ParsleySageRosemary

Totally understanding your frustration with this.

Yes, people (myself included) have mentioned other countries but there’s still an overwhelming majority of posters opposing it who are arguing against it based on healthcare in the US.

Because thats the only “option” we will be given - once conditions have been manipulated and ‘nudged’ so that the correct answer required will be supplied by the populace. What, do you think we left the EU so that we could continue the European model of giving a shit about public health, public services and the demos in general? We left the EU so that our government could follow the American Dream, of letting their cronies in big business fleece the little people for as much as they could get.

very well put 👏

You've been brainwashed by the private companies who provide USA medical services.

Who've influenced labour and conservative politicians for 25y+ and are playing the long game to get access to UK market

@TiredSloth you'd have a page on gofundme for her.

I'm sorry she has such a lot to go through, hoping she's doing OK

@Susu49 she’s a little fighter and you would never know that she only has half a heart if you met her!

The thing is she goes to a tiny village school and she is one of 3 single ventricle children there! One of the other families is much better known in the community so all local donations would go to them. Without the NHS I have no idea what I would do. She has had and still receives the most amazing care.

So what you are proposing OP is

• a system where poor people are priced out of healthcare, £10 for a doctors appt when many people are relying on food banks to eat
• a system where you have to spend hours and hours of your time jumping claim and admin hoops of private insurance
• a system where the healthcare is tiered so that people who can afford the best healthcare get a better standard of care, widening the poverty gap and inequality in our society
• a system that you wouldn’t be able to afford anyway since you have pre existing conditions
• a system based on countries that do pay MORE into their healthcare than the UK...

..so why not ask how we could fund the NHS more efficiently rather than move to a privatised system which only serves to milk users and make corporate fat cats richer

YABVVU and your question is ill considered

FWIW we have excellent private healthcare through my DH work but I rarely have a need to use it, and I don’t really recognise the drug ridden asylums you claim a&e depts to be.

If you want to pay more and get premium service, then you already have the option of going private. I don't see how that translates to wanting to strip away access to healthcare for the millions of people who can't afford to do that though.

The NHS is crumbling - it is a deliberate ploy by the government to have a reason to ditch it and privatise it all. It makes me livid. We have a complete social divide at the moment. I need treatment from a spinal surgeon - the waiting list here for even a first appointment is 73 weeks!! So I am going private as I am in dreadful pain. What happens to the poor bastards who can't afford to do what I am doing? - they go on in this eye-watering pain until they can get seen.

The NHS needs increased funding - it is too precious to lose.

My elderly parents could not cope with the bureaucracy. Without family to help people many of the most vulnerable would end up on awful insurance deals.

And think logically? Why would privatisation lead to a better service without people spending more money? It has not led to better trains. Or to better children's homes or elderly care homes. Instead we get scandal after scandal while the costs constantly increase.

You want private healthcare? You already have the choice. Do not try and force it on the rest of us.

The NHS has serious problems yes but unless a better system is found I don't think swapping unnecessary death and illness from occasional sub par care, for unnecessary death and illness for fear of bankruptcy is much of a trade off.

My dad by the way has had top-notch care during the pandemic for serious health problems. This is a man who it is a struggle to get home to go to the Dr. The staff provided excellent medical care and dealt with very sensitively what is frankly an awkward and difficult older man. There is no way a private insurance company would do that. And there is no way he could afford the co pay.

Working in the NHS it's already partially privatised, food, cleaning and security is contracted out now, very few trusts still have their own cleaners cooks and this hasn't ended well in my opinion, the cleaners and cooks are treated really unfairly and they are majorly over worked from what I've seen, due to this they make so many mistakes it's unbelievable.