To say the NHS should be privatised?

[Cheekypeach]

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

Most GPs think corporatisation of primary care and/or charging patients would financially benefits medics who are significantly disadvantaged by the government's monopsony position. Most are against it as the poorest patients would be likely to be disadvantaged. Anecdata but I see £100 per consult charged by some private GPs though there are some on MN who can give accurate information. Willing patients pay this and not always the wealthy but IMO any form of co-payment would deter poorer patients. I see some patients having to make choices now about which prescriptions to get when money is tight and they aren't eligible for free and don't benefit from a pre-payment. In healthcare, deferred or neglected treatment often leads to worsens outcomes.

@Twinklights agreed.

If the NHS was routinely funded to the same level as the European or G7 average for 10 years and people still thought it was broken THEN I'd be open to looking at other options.

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

If the NHS was routinely funded to the same level as the European or G7 average for 10 years and people still thought it was broken THEN I'd be open to looking at other options.

I agree except it would need to be 20 years for the medical professionals to get trained and into post and progress so that all posts were filled even at senior levels

Maybe we could pay more into it as a nation and make sure it is well resourced.

Maybe you want to see this, OP: m.youtube.com/watch?v=H8q_ASRnIQE

No! I couldn’t afford my medication if I had to pay for it. I’m on 5 and one of them alone costs the NHS over £600 a month according to my pharmacist. Don’t know about the others.

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

If the NHS was routinely funded to the same level as the European or G7 average for 10 years and people still thought it was broken THEN I'd be open to looking at other options.

Yes, absolutely.

The op seems to be entrenched in their viewpoint because people disagree with them.

The debate isn't personal, but many solid arguments for not privatising the NHS have been put forward, while acknowledging the problems which exist. And several alternative approaches have been suggested that would be of greater benefit to everyone, including the op.

🤣 have you got a spare thousand pound a month to pay for health insurance? And even then you will be denied treatment not because of your need but because the insurance company says no, my neighbour had to fight for nearly 4 years for her sons squint to be sorted as the insurance company stated it was cosmetic even though he had double vision. She was unable to get insurance due to her underlying conditions of colitis and not could she get it for her other son as he was autistic. She had to give up custody because her husband had health insurance via his employer and it covered the whole family.
A ITU nurse I knew ended up in ITU with sepsis... in patient for 4 weeks, sacked by her employer, health insurance when with it so she ended up with $100000's in debt.
if that's what you want that's what will happen!
In other news as a nurse I will earn a heap more money but like most other health professionals I support the NHS. So thinks about it why don't we want to earn stupid money? Because we know that private is not great.
We actually have the cheapest and most efficient health service in the world.
It will be cheaper to actually pay more money to the NHS than have to pay private insurance

@AchillesPoirot no reason not to do so, of course. Even if we immediately switched to a different model there'd still be a huge toxic culture that will take time to change (assuming it would eventually affect a positive change and that is far from guaranteed)

@Twinklights

Or something like, a £10 fee for GP appointments, £15 for consultant appointments, £300 bill for maternity services/birth etc. Everything having a small charge.

Sorry but this would leave a lot of people in precarious situations. £10/£15 is enough to stop people seeking medical treatment who are only just surviving. £300 for maternity care is also enough to put people into debt (which can easily spiral) at a really sensitive time.

It’s wrong to charge for healthcare unless a person chooses to seek private care. No one should be forced into debt or make choice to eat or seek a doctor.

The NHS might not be working completely at the moment but it is far better than the alternative.

I'm paying a fee with my taxes and am happy to keep it that way.

What about that little boy in the states who was dying and had to become a guinea pig for a pharmaceutical company just in case it would help him? What about the hundreds of people who wait all night for the voluntary dentists as they are desperate for any treatment?

I don't want it to be privatised. In America there's a thing called medical bankruptcy. People who have been make bankrupt because they were unfortunate enough to be seriously ill or injured while uninsured. Imagine being one accident or sudden illness away from losing your house.

It will divide the haves and have nots even further and reduce the care available to the poor. Have you noticed how hard it is to find an NHS dentist? Now try imagining the same scenario for someone with diabetes or asthma. People could die through lack of access to affordable care.

If the NHS gave me the option to voluntarily contribute some costs towards my care I'd do it in a heartbeat but that's because I can afford to. I don't think it should ever be privatised.

@Cheekypeach Do you get that many people cannot afford that, £300 maternity, essentially pricing poorer people out of having children.

It sounds a vile system

Why is everyone so obsessed with USA? It isn’t the only other country in the world?

@FloBot7 is it c600,000 families bankrupted every year, though in a nation with a larger population than the UK. I heard of one in the UK and that indirectly.

Having a baby is one of the riskiest things a woman can do. What it would do is make it riskier for the poor.

@Cheekypeach

Why is everyone so obsessed with USA? It isn’t the only other country in the world?

I mentioned Ireland but you don’t want to talk about it.

@CoconutQueen

I'm a nurse. Yes it should be, not partially but totally. The NHS is a total shambles and not fit for purpose; getting worse and worse every single day.... I am genuinely scared by the corners being cut and how unsafe it is. It's a fucking shambles.

This is worrying, can you give examples of things you've seen that indicate this?

Because where do you think the millions being paid to lobby and fund UK Conservative politicians are coming from and for what purpose? There are other systems but what % of lobbying is being paid to try and get the UK to establish a not for profit Western European insurance based, cooperative system? Do you think the current government will tend that way ideologically anyway? Would you like to buy a bridge?

It's half way there.

The NHS model is fine, it’s the fact that successive governments have underfunded it that is the root cause of all the problems in it.

YABVU

I mentioned Ireland but you don’t want to talk about it

Well, quite

A friend of mine just died in hospital in the US. His wife is a doctor. They had excellent medical insurance. But as well as losing her husband, she’s just been sent a $55,000 bill for his last weeks in hospital. That is her co-pay for 2021 and 2022 as the limit is by calendar year and he was in hospital from Dec to Jan. The full costs if they’d been uninsured but not poor enough for Medicaid (which millions are) would have been $275,000. She is now having to sell their home and is worried she won’t ever get to retire because by falling off the property ladder, she will have to pay rent the rest of her life.

So private = best care money can buy, but no care or bankruptcy for millions of people. You can already go private and get the best care money can buy. But the NHS needs to be left as a universal care system and funded better/more for those less privileged as healthcare is a human right and no one should go without or with substandard care due to lack of money.

I'm not saying the NHS isn't underfunded. Just saying there are other options.