To say the NHS should be privatised?

[Cheekypeach]

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

There’s no guarantee paying more would lead to a better service through privatising it. The USA healthcare is private and much more costly.

I’m up for paying more through taxes for it. We pay less than most developed countries

If only you were Health Secretary @SecretSpAD. I couldn’t agree more - as the survivor of three pointless and eye wateringly expensive reorganisations.

Anyway OP, please come back and tell us why you don't just go private for your day to day care yourself. Lots of posters have asked this.

@MimiDaisy11

There’s no guarantee paying more would lead to a better service through privatising it. The USA healthcare is private and much more costly.

I’m up for paying more through taxes for it. We pay less than most developed countries

And plenty of people still fall through the gaps, even if they can afford insurance

(Which incidentally, only covers a certain amount of treatment - as it does in the UK)

Changing anything in the NHS is peeing in the wind unless/until public health and social care are sorted out.

If much of the population is obese, or doesn't exercise, or drinks to excess, or smokes, or takes drugs and if there's isn't safe effective care for people leaving hospital, all the quality improvement in the world wont make much difference.

Nah the OP has been defeated by critical thinking

I havent RTFT, but the NHS is already being privatised.

CT reports out of hours, sent to private companies for reporting. It used to be in house staff.

Catering companies - private

Estates - private

Security - private

Consulations to reduce costs - private companies

Staff wellbeing services - private

Ambulances - private (not all, but a lot)

The list is endless. I work in front line healthcare, I see it every day.

@MorrisZapp

Do any other countries offer free healthcare to all?

Firstly, a Tory govt would only switch to a private for profit healthcare which I would hate to happen.

One example of an alternative universal healthcare system would be Germany. It uses a non profit insurance model for about 90% of the population, highest earners can opt out of this and pay for private profit healthcare if they wish. Both Germany and France, two models many think work fairly well, pay more for their care than U.K.

Copying and pasting text illustrating how German system works:

“If you are an employee and you earn less than €57,600 a year (€4,800 a month in 2017), you have to take part in the government health scheme – Gesetzliche Krankenversicherun or GKV – taking out health insurance as soon as you have signed your work contract.

The scheme is administered by around 110 Krankenkassen (non-profit making associations) which must all charge the same basic rate of 14.6% of your eligible gross salary; up to a maximum of €4,350 a month in 2017 (€52,200 annually). This amount is shared equally between you and your employer. You have to stay with a particular Krankenkasse for 18 months, after which time you can switch to another government scheme. Employed workers only pay contributions if they earn over €850 per month.”

@LightsoftheNorth

Changing anything in the NHS is peeing in the wind unless/until public health and social care are sorted out.

If much of the population is obese, or doesn't exercise, or drinks to excess, or smokes, or takes drugs and if there's isn't safe effective care for people leaving hospital, all the quality improvement in the world wont make much difference.

Agree, if 10% of the NHS budget is spent on Diabetes, why isn't far more done to reduce Type 2 ?

Social care requires nationalising it/incorporating into NHS and giving all carers at least a £5 ph pay rise

And maintenance… which is a huge earner for companies involved

@PeppaPigOinkOinkOink

I havent RTFT, but the NHS is already being privatised.

CT reports out of hours, sent to private companies for reporting. It used to be in house staff.

Catering companies - private

Estates - private

Security - private

Consulations to reduce costs - private companies

Staff wellbeing services - private

Ambulances - private (not all, but a lot)

The list is endless. I work in front line healthcare, I see it every day.

Yes, I have read this. They stick on a NHS logo so many don’t realise.

as the survivor of three pointless and eye wateringly expensive reorganisations.

I agree. All these people asking for root and branch reform is the last thing most public services need. Just stop with the CONSTANT reorganisations. And as for the lie that the NHS is massively wasteful and inefficient, no it's not. Just ask the WHO who consistently rate it very efficient at delivering value for money.

It’s a shame Clegg’s AV referendum didn’t go the other way. That would have tempered the two party flip-flopping on public services funding. It would have changed quite a few things by now.

After having over £200k of recent medical treatment and ongoing £3k a year treatment the status quo suits me. However after my DCs after requiring urgent medical needs were not met, we went private to the tune of £3k, it was worth every penny.

I think going private will be difficult and mostly unsatisfactory for all.

@Cheekypeach

Preferably only partially, but still. I was talking about this with DH yesterday who is adamant it should stay as it is. I said I don’t think it can survive in its current form, and I for one would rather pay more and receive a better quality service. AIBU?

Yup. That's what the Tories are banking on. Fuckers.

Often the sticker reads in partnership with the NHS

Sounds so nice and supportive

@GreenLunchBox

Because diabetes costs the NHS 10% of its budget each year!

90% of that is type 2

@SecretSpAD, thanks for sharing. V useful insights!

@sst1234

To those saying NHS is underfunded, why do you think that? It has had a 20% increase in funding in 10 years. How much would be enough? Is it a bottomless pit? Should we just keep pouring money into something that never seems to work anymore. Has the thought crossed your mind that the model simply is not fit for todays world. Or spending other peoples money just ticks the righteous box, regardless of outcome.

I really think MN thinks social care, health and welfare should be a bottomless pit.

I worked in admin for private healthcare a few years ago and I was surprised it was such a shitshow tbh. People have no concept of how much stuff costs and, like any insurance policy, they don’t want to pay. The amount of going between patients and insurers I had to do getting money, dealing with irate customers etc… it was so inefficient.

There were also policies designed to prey on people’s anxiety about serious illness; I had to tell an elderly lady that - no, unfortunately her insurance company were not going to pay for her consultation when she’d had a breast cancer scare because she had a clause in her contract that if she would be referred under the NHS two-week wait system then her insurance wouldn’t be valid 🤷🏻‍♀️ someone had to think up that particularly cynical manoeuvre.

There was a lot of concern amongst the old guard consultants that insurance companies were starting to find ways to direct treatment too; only paying for ‘approved’ practitioners, insisting on particular hospitals etc, reusing to pay for overnight stays etc. ultimately it should not be the random office staff at the insurance companies referring you to see a particular specialist, it should be the clinician who is actually seeing you and has expertise. If they want you to see Mr Pancreas Expert A who knows the most about your particular medical issue why should your insurance company be referring you to Mr Pancreas Surgeon B who is conveniently young enough not to have resisted their aggressive pricing strategy 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

Anyway…!

If much of the population is obese, or doesn't exercise, or drinks to excess, or smokes, or takes drugs

I wonder if these people actually safe the state money because they die sooner?

After having both NHS treatment and private treatment I 100% agree and have actually said that I would prefer American style healthcare - they have such a wider and better range of treatments available because of the amount of money people pay into it.

Oh gosh thanks guys

@chocolatebrowniesaddict

The nhs offers healthcare worse than some second world countries, of course it should be privatised. My mother waited in the a&e crying in agony for 9 hours a couple of months ago. She was told to go to the a&e by 111. I don't understand why people think that going private means ending up like the US? There's plenty of European countries who operate nothing like the US and still is very efficient unlike the NHS and cost friendly unlike the US.

I'm massive sorry to hear this.

But this is not the NHS, at least not intrinsically. I remember 10 hour A&E waits as a child, and serving them as a medical student. 4 year waits for joint replacement and buildings falling apart.

Under labour A&E waits reduced to 4 hours other than exceptional circumstances. As an orthopaedic trainee, the waiting lists to be seen in clinic were a matter of weeks, and for surgery a month. My record from referral to hip replacement was 23 days.

Ten years into tory rule and its all fucked again. The current state of the NHS is down to political ideology. We're the 6th wealthiest country in the world, and choices have been made to line the pockets of big business rather than finding public services, simple as that.

@Blossomtoes

If only you were Health Secretary *@SecretSpAD*. I couldn’t agree more - as the survivor of three pointless and eye wateringly expensive reorganisations.

I'm on a higher number than three 🤣🤪