AIBU to not sell my old flat?

[baconroll12]

12 years ago when I was single I bought a gorgeous old 2 bedroom flat that was a bit rundown in a not so nice area. I flatshared with my best friend (lets call her Becca) for most of the time I lived there and we tried our hand at some DIY/restoration and had the place looking incredible.

My DP and I bought a house 3 years ago and before that he lived with his parents. We're not married and we have a joint bank account that all bills come out of with our own separate savings and current accounts.

Becca and her DH split a few years ago in pretty awful circumstances and her and my goddaughter (4) moved back into my flat. The rent is the same as it was when we lived together.

My DP has become quite fixated on this flat. The run down area has now been fully gentrified and is one of the top places to live in the area. He told me that the going rate for rent is now 5 x what Becca pays. He's also looked into recently sold prices and told me what 'we' could do with the money if I sold the flat now. DP has a lot of excellent qualities but he is extremely greedy when it comes to money.

It's become a really touchy subject for us and he keeps saying that I want to keep the flat because it reminds me of my 'wild single days' and that I'm not fully committed to the relationship until I let go of the flat.

YABU- sell the flat
YANBU- keep the flat as you'll need it when you leave him (said in slight jest)

Owning a home together indicates a commitment almost equal to marriage.
It really isn't.

One is having a shared asset, whilst remaining legally and financially separate individuals.

The other is 2 adults legally choosing to bind their affairs and assets into a marital unit.

I think a lot of the hang ups here are because its a flat. If OP had an investment portfolio worth £250,000 that paid an annual dividend of £3000, would it be unreasonable to give that money to her hard up friend, without discussing it with her defaqto common law husband?
There is no common law husband.

If 2 adults choose to remain separate and have separate finances then that is their choice. OP has her flat. He has his savings.

There's no hangups over it being a flat.

@Blossomtoes

If OP had an investment portfolio worth £250,000 that paid an annual dividend of £3000, would it be unreasonable to give that money to her hard up friend, without discussing it with her defaqto common law husband?

Of course it wouldn’t be unreasonable. What part if it’s her money don’t you understand? In this case there isn’t even any money to discuss. And there’s no such thing as a common law husband or wife, de facto or otherwise.

It's her money. Absolutely right. And for what its worth I think its really kind what she is doing for her friend, I really do. And I do completely understand that its her money. But this is charity, and a very large donation.

I read so many other threads where all the talk is about 'household money'. It seems that only applies when the man earns more, or the man has greater assets.

I understand that 'common law' doesn't apply, i'm trying to point out that being together 7 years and owning a house together is morally on the same page as marriage. And I would be annoyed to see my partner choose to allow money to drift away indefinitely.

@LolaSmiles

Owning a home together indicates a commitment almost equal to marriage. It really isn't.

One is having a shared asset, whilst remaining legally and financially separate individuals.

The other is 2 adults legally choosing to bind their affairs and assets into a marital unit.

I think a lot of the hang ups here are because its a flat. If OP had an investment portfolio worth £250,000 that paid an annual dividend of £3000, would it be unreasonable to give that money to her hard up friend, without discussing it with her defaqto common law husband?
There is no common law husband.

If 2 adults choose to remain separate and have separate finances then that is their choice. OP has her flat. He has his savings.

There's no hangups over it being a flat.

OP, this is a fair point. I think me and this poster are both guilty presenting our opinions on the level of commitment in buying a house together as fact.

I know you have separate finances. But do you see yourself as a team? A long term partnership? Or do you see it as 2 people in a relationship who happen to own the property they live in. It makes a big difference, I think.

So his plan is for you to evict your friend then rent it at a much higher price or sell it and share the money with him? Got to live people who spend other peoples money.

I had one like this. Any money I had for me was me being selfish. Any money he had was solely for him.

It is your property to do with as you see fit. I would also consider whether I wanted to be with him any longer.

I read so many other threads where all the talk is about 'household money'. It seems that only applies when the man earns more, or the man has greater assets.
No, it's more accurate to say it only applies when there are shared finances, which is not the OP's set-up.

I read so many other threads where all the talk is about 'household money'. It seems that only applies when the man earns more, or the man has greater assets

In my 22 year marriage we’ve both earned more at different times. We’ve always had separate finances. Different strokes for different folks.

I think your friend is being quite exploitative of you.
I wouldn't be impressed if someone close to my DH was behaving like this with him.
For a couple of months in a crisis yes but for months or years, no.

It is your choice to choose to fund her current life but I don't think it is the mark of a decent person that she is allowing it to continue past the crisis stage.

I'm not particularly convinced by your DP either to be fair.

@Everanewbie
"I understand that 'common law' doesn't apply, i'm trying to point out that being together 7 years and owning a house together is morally on the same page as marriage. And I would be annoyed to see my partner choose to allow money to drift away indefinitely."

no. It really really REALLY isn't.

I read so many other threads where all the talk is about 'household money'. It seems that only applies when the man earns more, or the man has greater assets.

Or where they are married and or have kids.

With or without being legally married imo having kids changes your financial relationship because one person usually earns less during mat leave etc and for childcare. Even if both parents stay in full time employment they now have an extra large joint expensive.

None of that is the case for the OP. They own a house together. Financially and legally they could just be friends.

I read so many other threads where all the talk is about 'household money'. It seems that only applies when the man earns more, or the man has greater assets.
No, that only applies when there's shared finances or one person has taken a hit financially yo provide provide the household's children.
OP and her DP don't have shared finances.

I understand that 'common law' doesn't apply, i'm trying to point out that being together 7 years and owning a house together is morally on the same page as marriage.
It really isn't.
Owning a house together whilst having separate finances and opting to be legally single is not morally the same as marriage.

I understand that 'common law' doesn't apply, i'm trying to point out that being together 7 years and owning a house together is morally on the same page as marriage.

It really isn't.
And that isn't to disparage the OP's relationship, but owning a house together is not the same as being married to someone.
Owning a house together and deciding to have completely joint finances and completely joint everything - is closer in attitude to being married.

The big difference here is that is not the set up the OP and her DP has. They only own a house together.

Absolutely agree that it is your business what you do with your flat and it's lovely that your friend and her daughter have a secure home. As a side issue, what happens when repairs need doing to the flat, particularly as your friend pays way below market rent? Do you pay for it all, or does she contribute? As an owner of a rental property (which was for a while rented very cheaply to a family member) I'm aware that it gets expensive/confusing

I'm not sure its a fallacy. If the tenant is paying £500pm and its actually worth £800pm, she's effectively giving her friend £3,600pa.

If you're going to cost this, do it properly.

The OPs friend is paying a below market rate for the flat. In return for this, OP gets a trusted long term tenant. She knows the rent will be paid in full without her having to chase it or worse, there'll be no voids and no need to pay a letting agent to market and do viewings/take on that work herself . And the property is being well maintained and cared for, kept to a high standard.

These are not small things. They have a financial value too. You should factor in voids, extra maintenance costs and potential agent fees/value of OPs time in your calculations.

Don't get married and don't sell the flat. Always have an escape route.

@singswithitsfingers

Absolutely agree that it is your business what you do with your flat and it's lovely that your friend and her daughter have a secure home. As a side issue, what happens when repairs need doing to the flat, particularly as your friend pays way below market rent? Do you pay for it all, or does she contribute? As an owner of a rental property (which was for a while rented very cheaply to a family member) I'm aware that it gets expensive/confusing

Anything on top of the mortgage and insurance goes into a savings account for emergencies.

I did a lot to the flat when I was there so its a 120 year old flat (built to last!) with a new kitchen, bathroom and double glazing all put in within the last 8 years. Boiler went just before I left so it's about 3.5 years old.

Becca's brother is a joiner so he helped with a lot of stuff on mates rates for me and he'll look at repairs for her now.

Things like, the microwave went a few months ago and she won't even mention that, she'll just replace it. She treats it very much like her home.

[quote phishy]@bevelino what happened?[/quote]
Dh, insisted I sell my flat and at the time we had triplets and were short of money so I stupidly sold, which I now regret. However I bought another flat which I rent out and am not ever selling that one.

My tenants are lovely and even though I could charge them more I don’t because they are young graduates and look after my property really well.

Fuck that nonsense, that's security for you and your future. So many women don't have their own assets/financial security there is no way I would give up my property just because my OH wanted to profit from it or had some kind of insecurity with me having it.

I am single but if I ever meet anyone and move in with them I will not give up my house. Will rent it out, even if I never use it but it makes me feel better knowing its there for me or for my DD to live in if something ever happens.

@Everanewbie

Owning a home together indicates a commitment almost equal to marriage. Of course she can do what she wants with the house. Burn it down and piss on the ashes. Its her right. But if you are in a committed permanent (buying a house together indicates permanence to me) then I think you have an obligation to that partnership financially.

I think a lot of the hang ups here are because its a flat. If OP had an investment portfolio worth £250,000 that paid an annual dividend of £3000, would it be unreasonable to give that money to her hard up friend, without discussing it with her defaqto common law husband?

And as everyone on every other thread mentioning ‘common law’ wife/husband points out. There’s no such thing in English law.

You can live with someone and on leaving that relationship you will come away with whatever is in your name and they’ll keep whatever is theirs.

This is not a legally recognised relationship the OP owes her partner nothing. He is quids in able to afford half a house thanks to OP. Prior to moving in with OP this man lived with his parents.

The man has no claim on OP’s assets and what she chooses to do with her assets is completely and utterly down to her and none of her boyfriends business.

OP pulls her weight financially in the shared house with her P, she can share the costs equally for house improvements. The P had no reason whatsoever to poke his nose into her finances apart from greed.

If I have understood you post correctly, legally it makes no difference if you sold the flat as he wouldn't be entitled to a penny. I'd be so cautious marrying him (I know you said this wasn't on the cards yet) but to be honest I don't like the sound of him at all. Why is he researching the potential price of selling YOUR flat. If it goes tits up you have somewhere to go and somewhere you love. It sounds clinical but you have insure your future.

They have separate finances. The OP pays her share of the bills and has said she will pay half the cost of the conservatory even though she doesn't want it. It would only be anything to do with him if because of the low rent the OP couldn't afford her commitments and so he had to keep bailing her out. As he doesn't, it's got three fifths of five eighths of sod all to do with him.

It sounds like he's not the team player here, not OP. 'What's thine is mine and what's mine's me own.'

OP I've only got to page 6 but I've got to say this. These are the red flags that people somehow don't see before having DC or marrying.

Then he gets worse or just doesn't step up and you finally realise who he really is. Except it's too late by then, you're already tied to him.

All those women who save from their own wages to cover time off on maternity leave, because their DP/DH doesn't view his wages as family money. The women who end up having to pay for all child related expenses solely from their wage, leaving them with no spends, whilst DH/DP continues his hobbies like he never had DC.

All those men who don't do equal chores or parenting when you both work full time. Or consider your SAHM "job" is the DC/house/him, ie your "job" is 24/7 365 days of the year, but when he clocks off he "deserves downtime" in a way that you somehow don't. The men who pay legal minimum or even none at all child maintenance, because they don't consider the DC as anything much to do with them after you've split.

The women who end up in abusive relationships without realising how they got there.

This is how. By getting red flags like the ones your DP is giving off and not recognising those for what they are.

You can keep him in check if he doesn't manage to grind you down so slowly you don't see it happening whilst you're both earning and chipping in equal money for the bills/mortgage. But the second you're dependant on him and the power balance shifts to be no longer equal, you're going to know all about it. If you want marriage or DC, find someone better.

I find it very telling that he wants to get his hands on your money but isn't even willing to marry you in order to do his gold digging! Although it's lucky for you that he hasn't proposed because you might well have thought it love and not greed. I find him repulsive TBH.

I understand that 'common law' doesn't apply, i'm trying to point out that being together 7 years and owning a house together is morally on the same page as marriage. And I would be annoyed to see my partner choose to allow money to drift away indefinitely.

If you want to fully share your finances, you get married. Otherwise the finances of both partners are separate and stay like this, Even after 30 or 40 years of living together.

That’s that simple.

@baconroll12

My friend does work and doesn't receive housing benefit. Paying less than the market value on rent means she can save some money as a safety net for her and her daughter and they can have a bit of a life as well. It's maybe not forever but this works out for both me and her and only seems to inconvenience greedy guts.

And there you have it….. It works for you, Becca and her daughter. Greedy guts can take a hike… He had a house, I would be asking him if he really begrudges your friend and her child a home…. And I would not be planning a future with this greedy man

Well, if you have separate finances and you also want to do up your current house, then I’d talk to him about how much you both have/want to spend (50/50 each) and agree where/what you want to spend it on.
I wouldn’t mention the flat, even if he does, I’d just pretend it was all rolled up in my savings and talk generally about what you can afford to spend from your savings and what he can afford from his.

As to buying a house together makes you pretty much married, I’d say not at all. Legally getting married is what makes you married.

I would think hard about whether you can see a long term future with him when looking at your differences in how you look at finances.