Page 14 | AIBU to not sell my old flat?

baconroll12 · 2022-02-18T10:41:03+00:00

12 years ago when I was single I bought a gorgeous old 2 bedroom flat that was a bit rundown in a not so nice area. I flatshared with my best friend (lets call her Becca) for most of the time I lived there and we tried our hand at some DIY/restoration and had the place looking incredible. My DP and I bought a house 3 years ago and before that he lived with his parents. We're not married and we have a joint bank account that all bills come out of with our own separate savings and current accounts. Becca and her DH split a few years ago in pretty awful circumstances and her and my goddaughter (4) moved back into my flat. The rent is the same as it was when we lived together. My DP has become quite fixated on this flat. The run down area has now been fully gentrified and is one of the top places to live in the area. He told me that the going rate for rent is now 5 x what Becca pays. He's also looked into recently sold prices and told me what 'we' could do with the money if I sold the flat now. DP has a lot of excellent qualities but he is extremely greedy when it comes to money. It's become a really touchy subject for us and he keeps saying that I want to keep the flat because it reminds me of my 'wild single days' and that I'm not fully committed to the relationship until I let go of the flat. YABU- sell the flat YANBU- keep the flat as you'll need it when you leave him (said in slight jest)

IntermittentParps · 18/02/2022 16:16

I think most people would bang their head against a wall at a partner who's loyalty to their friend is doing the household out of thousands each year by not seeking market rate on the rent.

It's not 'doing the household out of thousands' ; that's a fallacy. The OP is choosing not to maximise the rent on her flat, sure, but that's not the same thing at all.
It'd be different if the rental raise or sale of the flat could dig the OP and her DP out of a serious financial hole or raise them out of poverty or whatever, but I don't think that's the case.

GlitteriestFluff · 18/02/2022 16:17

As you can see on this thread, there are those who believe money is king (all the 'meet him half way/he's got a point' types), and those who believe it is of secondary value to other things.

Your DP is of the first type, you are of the second.

This is a huge difference in basic values - not one I'd be arsed to put up with, but it's your choice.

You will find this difference in values keeps on coming up in your relationship with him, over and over in different ways. Which is why I'd sack it off now.

Everanewbie · 18/02/2022 16:26

@IntermittentParps

I think most people would bang their head against a wall at a partner who's loyalty to their friend is doing the household out of thousands each year by not seeking market rate on the rent.

It's not 'doing the household out of thousands' ; that's a fallacy. The OP is choosing not to maximise the rent on her flat, sure, but that's not the same thing at all.
It'd be different if the rental raise or sale of the flat could dig the OP and her DP out of a serious financial hole or raise them out of poverty or whatever, but I don't think that's the case.

I'm not sure its a fallacy. If the tenant is paying £500pm and its actually worth £800pm, she's effectively giving her friend £3,600pa.

If I was DP, I would be very annoyed at that, knowing that being generous to a friend is ranking above our present and future prosperity as a couple.

I am concerned over his motives for trying to get it sold though. There is a bit of a hint of use your asset, not mine to fund the improvements.

LolaSmiles · 18/02/2022 16:27

I find it very telling that he’s never suggested using any of his savings for the 'home improvements' he's proposing. You selling your flat to fund it while his savings remain untouched effectively transfers half of what you spend to him. Greedy, indeedsad. And not a little bit sly
I was thinking the same thing.
It's convenient how often chancers and grabby types seem awfully keen to spend other people's money.

Blossomtoes · 18/02/2022 16:28

I'm not sure its a fallacy. If the tenant is paying £500pm and its actually worth £800pm, she's effectively giving her friend £3,600pa.If I was DP, I would be very annoyed at that, knowing that being generous to a friend is ranking above our present and future prosperity as a couple.

It is a fallacy because that £3,6k would still be OP’s money, not his.

IntermittentParps · 18/02/2022 16:35

@Blossomtoes

I'm not sure its a fallacy. If the tenant is paying £500pm and its actually worth £800pm, she's effectively giving her friend £3,600pa.If I was DP, I would be very annoyed at that, knowing that being generous to a friend is ranking above our present and future prosperity as a couple.

It is a fallacy because that £3,6k would still be OP’s money, not his.

Well yes, this, although that's not what I meant.

MargotEmin · 18/02/2022 16:37

she's effectively giving her friend £3,600pa.

She's really really not

NoSquirrels · 18/02/2022 16:40

They have separate finances.

If OP wants to ‘give away’ (although I wouldn’t see it like this at all!) any amount of her own money it’s of no business of her DP.

TravellingFrom · 18/02/2022 16:40

@Everanewbie why would you be annoyed as this is not your money and you don’t share that money with your DP?

If the OP had been married, then faut enough, but in that situation? The OP can do whatever she wants, including giving thousands of pounds to a charity, a friend or the Tory party if she wants to. Nothing to do with her DP.

lockdownalli · 18/02/2022 16:40

YANBU - definitely don't marry him even if he asks!! He would then have a right to some share of the flat if you split.

I would tell him it's none of his business and you never intend to sell the flat. 50/50 contribution to home improvements is fair.

legalquestion1234 · 18/02/2022 16:43

The people arguing on DP's side - you don't seem to be getting them Becca and her daughter as clearly OP's family. Especially if you don't have kids yourself, you can become like a second mother in your friend's kids lives. A friend of mine had a relationship like this with her friend's mum and it's an incredibly special (and lucky) thing for both of them to have.

TravellingFrom · 18/02/2022 16:45

I think most people would bang their head against a wall at a partner who's loyalty to their friend is doing the household out of thousands each year by not seeking market rate on the rent.

Why would it be an issue if it doesn’t stop them from doing the stuff they want - the stuff the have IN COMMON? She is taking any money out of the HOUSEHOLD money. She is ‘taking money out’ her own pocket. So what?

As it stands the OP isn’t fussed about the home improvement. She doesn’t have to agree to them.
Her DP is also not willing to put his share if the money - expecting the OP to pay for it on the sale. Which is crazy because a conservatory is a few thousands pounds, maybe £10k. And a flat is much much more money that, esp in a sought after area.
What is the DP expecting her to do with the rest if the money I wonder…

TravellingFrom · 18/02/2022 16:47

@Everanewbie

Although this flat apparently has nothing to do with DP, did your ownership mean him paying 50% of second stamp duty on your joint property? If so, it has everything to do with him.

Even if they had paid for the stamp duty together, it’s a bit late 3 years later to have an issue with it and proclaim he has a say in what to do with the flat.

If he had an issue with it, he should have brought that up at the time (that is if the OP hadn’t been paying it anyway….)

LittleOwl153 · 18/02/2022 16:54

This

The only, and only way I'd consider raising the rent would be if your friend is claiming housing benefit and your rent is below the rate the LHA, which would therefore be saving the state money but not your friend, or if you can see the flat needing work in thr next couple of years (eg new boiler, kitchen/bathroom refresh) and you wanted to create a fund to do that.

I'd be saying to him that if you sell the flat you will be paying off YOUR SHARE of the mortgage with the proceeds not paying for home improvements as you would want to maintain the value of the asset. That means it acutally only makes sense if your share of the mortgage interest is greater than the net income of the flat (including price gain).

Everanewbie · 18/02/2022 16:59

TravellingFrom well 3 years is the deadline to reclaim it. So too late now I suppose, but not 3 or 4 months ago

theleafandnotthetree · 18/02/2022 17:00

You are being very unreasonable to be in a relationship with someone who aspires to have a conservatory. What is he, 80?

sillysmiles · 18/02/2022 17:01

@Everanewbie
but I think most people would bang their head against a wall at a partner who's loyalty to their friend is doing the household out of thousands each year by not seeking market rate on the rent

I suppose it depends on how much you value your friends. The OP has made it clear that supporting her friend is important to her and they aren't desperate for the money.

Original poster

baconroll12 · 18/02/2022 17:01

@theleafandnotthetree

You are being very unreasonable to be in a relationship with someone who aspires to have a conservatory.

What is he, 80?

This just made me snort laugh.

OP posts:

Everanewbie · 18/02/2022 17:04

Owning a home together indicates a commitment almost equal to marriage. Of course she can do what she wants with the house. Burn it down and piss on the ashes. Its her right. But if you are in a committed permanent (buying a house together indicates permanence to me) then I think you have an obligation to that partnership financially.

I think a lot of the hang ups here are because its a flat. If OP had an investment portfolio worth £250,000 that paid an annual dividend of £3000, would it be unreasonable to give that money to her hard up friend, without discussing it with her defaqto common law husband?

Original poster

baconroll12 · 18/02/2022 17:08

My friend does work and doesn't receive housing benefit. Paying less than the market value on rent means she can save some money as a safety net for her and her daughter and they can have a bit of a life as well. It's maybe not forever but this works out for both me and her and only seems to inconvenience greedy guts.

OP posts:

Original poster

baconroll12 · 18/02/2022 17:09

@Everanewbie

Owning a home together indicates a commitment almost equal to marriage. Of course she can do what she wants with the house. Burn it down and piss on the ashes. Its her right. But if you are in a committed permanent (buying a house together indicates permanence to me) then I think you have an obligation to that partnership financially.

I think a lot of the hang ups here are because its a flat. If OP had an investment portfolio worth £250,000 that paid an annual dividend of £3000, would it be unreasonable to give that money to her hard up friend, without discussing it with her defaqto common law husband?

I pay half of all household bills and have offered to pay half of the renovations to the house.

OP posts:

sillysmiles · 18/02/2022 17:12

Owning a home together indicates a commitment almost equal to marriage.
But they don't share finances besides bills and household expenses - they each have their own accounts and savings.

I think a lot of the hang ups here are because its a flat
Yes, it's her friend's and her daughters home. Also, if things went tits up with her DP it's a place to escape to.

If as a couple they decided they were going to pay down the mortgage quickly and both were going to throw chunks of money at it, then that would be a different discussion. But he isn't proposing to add anything only take something that belonged to the OP before she met him.

Surely the biggest things is that she said no, and she has explained that it is important to her that Becca and child are secure. That should be enough. That is her decision.

Blossomtoes · 18/02/2022 17:13

If OP had an investment portfolio worth £250,000 that paid an annual dividend of £3000, would it be unreasonable to give that money to her hard up friend, without discussing it with her defaqto common law husband?

Of course it wouldn’t be unreasonable. What part if it’s her money don’t you understand? In this case there isn’t even any money to discuss. And there’s no such thing as a common law husband or wife, de facto or otherwise.

theleafandnotthetree · 18/02/2022 17:18

Why thank you @baconroll12, but I'm waiting for passionate conservatory owners to decry my snobbery not to mention my obvious ageism. I'm sure conservatories are wonderful things, some of my best friends have them, etc, etc. but something about the OPs description of her partner, the greed, the pushiness, the penny pinching, the obsession over property values makes me think of him as a mean little man sitting with a blanket over his legs in his conservatory adding up his pounds and pence.

JustLyra · 18/02/2022 17:18

@Everanewbie

Owning a home together indicates a commitment almost equal to marriage. Of course she can do what she wants with the house. Burn it down and piss on the ashes. Its her right. But if you are in a committed permanent (buying a house together indicates permanence to me) then I think you have an obligation to that partnership financially.

I think a lot of the hang ups here are because its a flat. If OP had an investment portfolio worth £250,000 that paid an annual dividend of £3000, would it be unreasonable to give that money to her hard up friend, without discussing it with her defaqto common law husband?

He's not her husband. Common law or otherwise. They have a financial set up, the OP pays her half.

Why is it on the OP to maximise her investments to chip more into the pot? He has savings so why is it not on him?

This scenario reminds me a bit of the woman who constantly posted complaining about her boyfriend giving his brother money and nice gifts - the entitlement to someone else's money is quite special.