What to think! Guy I am dating told me something?

[Musinglife11]

Went on a third date with a guy. He is nice and we connect well. I just felt comfortable around him.

He told me a few years back he was arrested and investigated for attempted rape. He was accused by an ex as revenge. He was investigated for 6 months, but charges dropped ( no further evidence?). He said it tore his life apart as he couldn’t work and nearly suffered a breakdown.

Said it was a revenge accusation. It didn't happen, but he wanted to be honest. He showed me emails from the police saying no further evidence. He said she got investigated for false allegations but police decided not to charge.

I spoke to a friend who is a police detective and he said it will most likely be false as it was investigated very quickly as these things can take up to a year or more.

How would you feel being told this? I am undecided as he seems really nice and was broken telling me. But it has made me slow things down, as it was very serious allegation that got investigated!

I'll tell you my story.

Guy I was with told me the same thing. A few years back he was falsely accused by an ex, spent a night in jail before the investigation, which eventually stopped due to lack of evidence (she never admitted to lying). Okay, fine, he was working in a job with an enhanced DBS, too, so I wasn't too worried.

While I was with him he got arrested again. Messages between him and a girl had come to light suggesting predatory behaviour. They were taken out of context; he got released and charges dropped. Told me the girl had also falsely accused him of rape when he was a teen and obviously still was "after him" (for revenge). How bad can luck be that something like that happened twice?

Then a girl at work accused him of inappropriate behaviour. No evidence again and the girl had form for lying. He eventually left that job.

We split, for many reasons - mostly because I had come to see how my own boundaries weren't being respected. Little things like continuously calling even when I was busy. And talking me round sexual things I hadn't initially agreed to. And sulking when we hadn't had sex for 3 weeks in a row because circumstances stopped it. Funnily enough he always emphasised how important consent was for him.

Then he took up another post. I found out later he got sacked about a month in; people wouldn't say why. I know he is still working in the same profession, still needs the enhanced DBS.

Now, being accused once - shit happens. Being accused twice, how unlucky must you be. But taking it all together and now I am not so sure.

If you do decide to keep seeing him, look out for little signs. Does he respect boundaries. Is there other history you don't know. Then make your decision based on that.

Do NOT rely on mutual friends or his friends to tell you how things have been. Chances are, they will never actually see the true person.

Red flag for me and I would end it immediately.

I would question why he felt the need to say this on the 3rd date and I would take it as a sign he is testing the water as to what you will accept...

The successful conviction rate for rape and sexual assault is ridiculously low and the police (as shown by the recent Metropolitan Police stories) and court are still not great at dealing with and believing victims.

So there is a chance that even if someone was not convicted, he could still have committed the offence. It is very hard to prove especially when two people are in a relationship when it is often someone's word against the other's.

Also, it would be another red flag anyway that a woman would do this. I have learned it is better to stay away from anyone with 'crazy exes', because usually they have done something to create that situation.

I was assaulted by someone I was dating and who had been a friend for several years. It started as a consensual encounter then turned into something else. I did not report it because I knew it would not stand up in court and I would face accusations of making it up from the other side. I found out after the event that he did the same to an ex girlfriend. Neither of us felt we could report him, so there is no conviction. The point is this man was and is an abuser of women but has no criminal record.

Be on the safe side and run.

@MissTrip82

Amazing how many people have had the vanishingly rate experience of a false rape accusation.

Astonishing.

According to Rape Crisis, 85,000 women are raped per year. If we take the 3% figure from earlier then there are 2,550 false accusations per year. Is it really so hard to believe that a handful of people on a busy forum may know someone who really has been falsely accused?

I'm curious as to when a man (theoretically let's say an absolutely genuinely innocent man) should bring an accusation like this up.

Clearly many of you think that mentioning it on the third date is manipulative. But if he waited until, say, the tenth date, surely he'd be accused of letting the woman develop feelings for him before he dropped this on her?

IMO later would be worse for me. I'd feel that he'd kept something from me and waited until I was more emotionally invested to tell me. I'd be surprised if the Mumsnet response would be any different.

I'm curious - let's say there's an entirely hypothetical scenario (not OPs necessarily) where a man was genuinely falsely accused.

What point is the right time to tell the person he's dating? Apparently the third date is grooming / testing boundaries according to many posters on here. So what if he waited until they'd moved in together? Bought a house? Married? Had kids? Would that be entrapment instead of grooming? Does he never say anything and hope it doesn't come out, and would that be a betrayal?

Remember, this is an entirely hypothetical scenario where the man really is innocent.

Hard one to call. On the one hand he may just genuinely like you and wanted to be upfront just incase it ever came to light further down the line. On the other hand, he may actually be a rapist who wanted to get his false story out there before you found out and run a mile. Kind of like how a child will approach their parents when they’ve done something wrong and give a diluted version of events (still sort of telling the truth but missing out important bits of info that would get them into more trouble).

DBS check is all well and good but plenty of crimes are either unreported or the perpetrator can’t be charged due to insufficient evidence so this won’t be flagged. He said they had insufficient evidence in this case rather than her admitting she lied (which is a crime). Most rapes have insufficient evidence so most rapists aren’t convicted. Some women do lie but it’s rare, far more have actually been raped.

I’d be cautious about this personally. I know how quickly the police do drop things due to insufficient evidence because it happened to me when my ex stalked and eventually assaulted me months after we split. They questioned him, he actually admitted to the assault but they didn’t deem it serious enough so dropped it. It was a quick turnaround, think they dropped it after a month max.

I'm a man. How about close to 100% of men are rapists almost all of the time? That's not a slight on men but to not recognise it is an insult to women.

I'm guessing that you meant '100% of rapists are men' @Lunar27 If not, could you elaborate?

It is fascinating to observe that, as a man, your comment was not leapt upon and savaged, viciously.

@seaniboy

I've heard someone who was gay being implied "you wanted it" numerous times by numerous public bodies because a man raped him.

Yes, women have famously never been told this.

Or had their underwear shown in court as proof they 'wanted' sex so it probably wasn't rape. Or had their text message histories shown in court as proof they enjoyed an active sex life with various partners so it probably wasn't rape.

Honestly, the audacity of you to use the awful experience of a man as a sort of gotcha against women is unreal.

Stop spouting absolute nonsense and saying stuff like 'bra burning women' and either go back to the 1960s or find a MRA subreddit where you can pretend that this isn't a male violence issue.

It's apparent in everything you write that you're a misogynist.

Lunar27
How about close to 100% of men are rapists almost all of the time? That's not a slight on men but to not recognise it is an insult to women.

I'd love to see the evidence that shows almost all men are rapists.

I'd further love to see the evidence that shows almost all men are constantly committing rapes.

You're talking out of your arse.

@lottiegarbanzo

I'm a man. How about close to 100% of men are rapists almost all of the time? That's not a slight on men but to not recognise it is an insult to women.

I'm guessing that you meant '100% of rapists are men' @Lunar27 If not, could you elaborate?

It is fascinating to observe that, as a man, your comment was not leapt upon and savaged, viciously.

Need to engage brain, sorry! I stand corrected so thanks for pointing that out.

Yes, close to 100% of rapists are men!

Probably not lept on as it's widely accepted isn't it?

@Lockheart

I'm curious - let's say there's an entirely hypothetical scenario (not OPs necessarily) where a man was genuinely falsely accused.

What point is the right time to tell the person he's dating? Apparently the third date is grooming / testing boundaries according to many posters on here. So what if he waited until they'd moved in together? Bought a house? Married? Had kids? Would that be entrapment instead of grooming? Does he never say anything and hope it doesn't come out, and would that be a betrayal?

Remember, this is an entirely hypothetical scenario where the man really is innocent.

If he was genuinely falsely accused, there would be evidence wouldn't there - either from the police pursuing a false allegation conviction, an apology from the woman or the evidence being so overwhelming he is successful in a trial. Or at the very least, a police communication that they charged her with false allegation but CPS decided there wasn't enough to prosecute. All of which he could share with his date as actual evidence. And this wouldn't be an issue for her or him.

Because if he doesn't have any evidence of it being a genuine false allegation, how does anyone know it was a genuine false allegation? Because he said so? Because someone's mate said so? Because his mum said so?

@MorningStarling. Just checking that you're paying attention .

@Lockheart

I'm curious - let's say there's an entirely hypothetical scenario (not OPs necessarily) where a man was genuinely falsely accused.

What point is the right time to tell the person he's dating? Apparently the third date is grooming / testing boundaries according to many posters on here. So what if he waited until they'd moved in together? Bought a house? Married? Had kids? Would that be entrapment instead of grooming? Does he never say anything and hope it doesn't come out, and would that be a betrayal?

Remember, this is an entirely hypothetical scenario where the man really is innocent.

Genuinely falsely accused? As in police investigation proved the claim was false and the woman confessed to making it up?

Third date is fine to explain and show the evidence that she was charged with wasting police time.

What point is the right time to tell the person he's dating? Apparently the third date is grooming / testing boundaries according to many posters on here.

You're making the unreliable assumption that what he told her is true.

A person testing someone else's boundaries and seeking to manipulate them, need not use truth do it.

Has this man ever been accused of rape and investigated? We do not know. OP's police friend advised that his story doesn't add up, so probably not.

Now, do we still think she 'owes him a chance' and that the important thing here is to look at everything from his perspective (as we imagine it, relying upon the unreliable premise that his tale is true) and consider kindly what might be in his best interests?

Whatever the truth, whatever his interests, OP owes him nothing. She's not his parent, his therapist, or an agent of god or the state, provided by them for the purpose of comforting men.

She is the main character in the story of her own life. He's a bit part player, easily forgotten.

Every rapist whose case comes to court claims it is a false accusation and they are not guilty. And quite a lot of the time it works and they walk free.

Not surprising that the ones who don’t come to court also use the false accusation to hide behind.

@Lunar27

People can't see inside your head, only what you write. You wrote that almost all men are rapists, in your own words 'close to 100% of men are rapists'. I don't think most people do agree that that's true, no.

While the accidental word switch was fairly obvious, I do wonder what the response would have been if an ambiguous or obviously female poster had written the same.

People will certainly agree with you that all rapists are men (not 'close to all' though, as you have to have a penis to do it, that's what rape is). Yes, there have been one or two women convicted of 'joint enterprise' where a mixed gang attacked a women but it was still a man doing the actual raping.

@lottiegarbanzo " What point is the right time to tell the person he's dating? Apparently the third date is grooming / testing boundaries according to many posters on here.

You're making the unreliable assumption that what he told her is true."

I think you didn't read my post, I was asking a question based on a completely hypothetical scenario in which the man really is innocent.

@WouldIwasShookspeared " *Genuinely falsely accused? As in police investigation proved the claim was false and the woman confessed to making it up?

Third date is fine to explain and show the evidence that she was charged with wasting police time.*

Yes, in my hypothetical scenario I mean genuinely falsely accused.

In the UK where the crime of rape is
(1)A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
(2)Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.

Then rape requires a penis.

Which means 100% of rapists have a penis attached to their bodies. aka male. So in the UK 100% of rapists are men.

If a person believes rape is limited to when a stranger drags you into bushes then yes. Not every man. Not most men. A small proportion of men.

But when we understand that rape is much more than being dragged off the street by a stranger, when we know to include men who sulk and threaten and whine and coerce and all the times consent is not freely given. All the times we aren't really sure if it's rape because he's her partner and she did say no but he carried on and she didn't scream or call for help. The times she really didn't want to but he was bullying her and she was so upset she felt she had to give in so he'd leave her alone for a while after that". The times she woke up to find his penis inside her. The times they were having sex and he did something she did not want and did not agree to and he refused to stop even though consent was withdrawn. The times she was too drunk to consent, the relationships when he hits her and she's too scared of being beaten to even dare refuse him, etc etc then only a fool thinks that doesn't increase the number of rapists from namalt to asbnomalt (a scary bloody number of men...)

He COULD have been falsely accused but statistically it's more likely he did it. Only the tiniest percentage of rapists actually pay for their crimes. Most get away with it. To me, any man talking about his "crazy ex" (ugh) a few dates in would be for the bin regardless of the context. Huge red flags all round 🚩

I'm not interested in your hypothetical scenario Lockheart. I'm not interested in switching this thread around to focus on men. Certainly not on endless indulgent hypotheticals that cast men as the main characters and seek to engage us in expending time and energy focusing our attention on their interests.

I'm interested in OP, and other women like her, enjoying a happy, healthy life.

My dad was arrested for being the Yorkshire Ripper as he looked similar and was a Geordie living in the area when the tapes were released.

How many people does he tell that he was falsely accused of being a murderer? None. He has no reason to tell people about it. He doesn't need to convince anyone he is innocent of murder. It never comes up in conversation even with new people he meets. People who protest the loudest do so for a reason.

@lottiegarbanzo

I'm not interested in your hypothetical scenario Lockheart. I'm not interested in switching this thread around to focus on men. Certainly not on endless indulgent hypotheticals that cast men as the main characters and seek to engage us in expending time and energy focusing our attention on their interests.

I'm interested in OP, and other women like her, enjoying a happy, healthy life.

Then why did you respond to it

Maybe all the posters who want to engage in hypothetical discussions about dating opportunities for men who have been accused of rape, could start their own thread?

There certainly seem to be enough of you for a lively and mutually satisfying discussion.

@Awalkintime

My dad was arrested for being the Yorkshire Ripper as he looked similar and was a Geordie living in the area when the tapes were released.

How many people does he tell that he was falsely accused of being a murderer? None. He has no reason to tell people about it. He doesn't need to convince anyone he is innocent of murder. It never comes up in conversation even with new people he meets. People who protest the loudest do so for a reason.

He doesn't need to though, does he? Someone else was arrested and found guilty, so no one's going to accidentally discover that your dad was arrested for those murders and think 'there's no smoke without fire'.

People who protest the loudest do so for a reason. makes no sense in your context.