What to think! Guy I am dating told me something?

[Musinglife11]

Went on a third date with a guy. He is nice and we connect well. I just felt comfortable around him.

He told me a few years back he was arrested and investigated for attempted rape. He was accused by an ex as revenge. He was investigated for 6 months, but charges dropped ( no further evidence?). He said it tore his life apart as he couldn’t work and nearly suffered a breakdown.

Said it was a revenge accusation. It didn't happen, but he wanted to be honest. He showed me emails from the police saying no further evidence. He said she got investigated for false allegations but police decided not to charge.

I spoke to a friend who is a police detective and he said it will most likely be false as it was investigated very quickly as these things can take up to a year or more.

How would you feel being told this? I am undecided as he seems really nice and was broken telling me. But it has made me slow things down, as it was very serious allegation that got investigated!

Happened to my son, over covid he/we waited for over a year. Your date had to tell you, it's honourable and unavoidable. My son shared his story with his girlfriend before they dated and fortunately she knew my sons accuser and she had done this before. How easily his new girlfriend could have felt vulnerable. He has a letter exonerating him that only he and I have ever read, very hard on young shoulders. I wish you well, unless you've experienced a false accusation and how damaging it is it is a shock it has to be talked about my son knows this will always guide him to chose carefully and tbh if you can't handle it then I wish you and him peace from a head full of mumsnet. Perhaps meet his family or members of, I spoke to my son's girlfriends mum before they went official, the right people understand.

If any of you sent your kids to nursery without NSPCC pants song etc do it asap

I think there needs to be a strategy to teach kids about sexual abuse but the NSPCC Pants thing is not a good message to teach kids.

It teaches children they must say no when in a state of fear and then develop that idea that if they didn't say no they are to blame. NSPCC pants song puts the onus on the child to prevent their own sexual abuse. How many adults can say no when they are raped? How many freeze? Almost all. And that is adults against adults. When kids are faced with someone 5 times the size are they likely to 'just say no'. Are they hell.

If all it takes is to 'just' say no and it will stop then you are very much mistaken. Also we are teaching kids that if they say no it will stop so subconsciously we are telling them if they didn't say no then they didn't stop it. This is where self blame begins. These kids will begin to blame themselves because they didn't 'just' say no. Also the word 'just' implies it is oh so easy.

Of course educating children is important but we shouldn't educate them using such a method where they are taught they are responsible for preventing their own rape and it is oh so simple to stop it.

I’m really surprised at some of the responses on here. I thought we’d moved past the ‘be kind’ to men because you might hurt their feelings. I’m also really disturbed that so many people are quick to share their empathy with poor men but barely a consideration to all the woman who have been raped (including the many on this thread).

I wouldn’t believe him, but then I’ve been raped at two different stages in my life and it’s hardly like those men are running around declaring themselves as rapists. In fact for all those ‘I know for a fact x woman falsely accused’, how many also know men who openly admit to rape - especially as we know the stats are significantly higher to be raped than to be falsely accused.

But regardless of what I believe, there is one main thing I’ve noticed. For the majority of those saying ‘give him a chance’ they are also simultaneously saying ‘proceed with caution/ keep both eyes open/ take it slowly/ gather more evidence,’ etc. Even if he’s honest, that just sounds completely exhausting having to be on rape watch every moment you’re with him - just in case he’s not telling the truth. Is that really something you want to feel whenever you are with him, OP?

@Lucinda7

I was on the jury of a rape case where the man was falsely accused. The innocent verdict was unanimous. Unfortunately mud sticks. She did it out of spite and for financial reasons. To grab money while he would hopefully be in jail.

I'm amazed that a case like that ever made it to court. If it was that clear cut the cps would have chucked it on the reject pike long ago

ForTheHorde
Completely agree. This myth of lots of women falsely accusing men is proving to be a good protector of rapists and letting them get off and walk around without being doubted. It is just people saying they know someone who is likely a rapist peddling a story! The % of false accusation is on a par with all other crimes. How many false burglaries do we hear of? False car thefts?

Rape is the only crime where the victim becomes the accused.

Sadly the attitude of many on here is why women don't report and prevent many women from reporting. This attitude is held by the police so women face it in society and by the police.

Rape it the most legal illegal thing in the UK like driving at 71mph.

knittingaddict

Completely agree, there is a quota by CPS and only those with the strongest evidence get through. I have a confession and even that is not enough for CPS to take it on. That tells you how strong the evidence must be for cases that get taken on.

Great posts cuno, thank you.

Grr, I meant "reject pile" obviously.

I only know of one case of a woman accusing a man of rape. I believe her.

Apparently he "couldn't remember". Not "I would never do that", but "I don't remember". If you're the sort of man who would never rape a woman then you don't need to rely on your memory to know if you did or didn't rape someone.

The cps said it was a he said/she said situation and it was rejected. Big surprise .

There were other accusations involved, but the will and resources to protect women is largely absent. Yet another man gets away with it and free to tell other women about what a victim he is.

That would put me off and actually no, the Police often don't know their stuff and it all depends on CPS/evidence and likelihood of prosecution

I have worked with many children who have suffered sexual abuse who have never had justice because of lack of evidence.

Claire's law OP and decide from there ...

The fact that they considered investigating her for false accusations shows that there was more to it than just insufficient evidence. The police will have had reason to believe she was lying but not enough evidence to take it further. So it's a bit different to a case that is just dropped or guilty man found not guilty because it can not be proven. Although it is not the norm, these things can and do happen. He has been upfront and told you early on. I would proceed with caution though as you can't be sure yet, but I'd give him a chance.

OP doesn’t need to weigh up all men, or all rapes, or gender debates, or anything else in this thread, or even consider the lifetime affect on this one man if it was a false accusation.

She can just weigh up the relative harm and risks:

If she stops seeing him, the potential risk and harm to him if innocent is minor: he just doesn’t get a fourth date. That could have happened anyway, for lots of reasons.

If she keeps seeing him, the potential risk and harm to her is rape. That isn’t minor.

After three dates (after any length of time), she doesn’t owe him the benefit of the doubt or have the duty to take on the mantle of all falsely accused men or to ensure this one man’s life isn’t irrevocably harmed by the accusation. None of this is her responsibility: it’s three dates. She can walk away.

@saraclara

Far more women are having their lives ruined by these men than the minuscule number of men who are falsely accused of rape.

And again, what do those numbers have to do with this one man? You are proving my point with everything you say. You are judging individuals based on the statistics of a group.

What else has OP got to go on.

In a he said she said situation, I think statistics are a good thing to base a decision on.

It is hard to really know the truth about someone and only time can tell us what we need to know sometimes. But it’s a gamble to give it time as the OP could become a statistic.

I know someone that has raped a number of women and have never been officially accused. He has physically, mentally and sexually abused ex partners. He is outwardly quite a feminist and currently ridiculing Prince Andrew. I would imagine that most peoples gut would tell them that he’s completely harmless.

Did you post about this before OP?
I’m asking because I recall an almost identical issue raised fairly recently.

I recall something almost identical a while back too.

Rapes don't end in convictions because the evidence is poor

Rapes dont end in conviction because women know not to bother reporting it/they know the system will break her and still let him free.
In this case the police looked into her false allegation

Only got the mans word for this, it would take me about 3 minutes to fake an email.

Women need to stop playing these stupid games if tgey did it would be better for all us and safer

Or men need to stop raping us and then we could be confident a false accusation is exactly that.

Thus guys sounds fine to me. 3rd date big disclosure. I'd carry on and see how things pan out

You would really put yourself at risk, for a single man? You sure?

We've got to stop throwing the baby out with the bath water! Not everyone is guilty as charged

Theres many many men out there, we dont need to keep a possible rapist with us, it's not our job to play nice, it's not up to us to service the men of the world, this is not our problem.

So if she didnt fancy him it'd be ok to dump him, but because he might be a rapist she should keep him? Why?

Amazing how many people have had the vanishingly rate experience of a false rape accusation.

Astonishing.

Theres many many men out there, we dont need to keep a possible rapist with us, it's not our job to play nice, it's not up to us to service the men of the world, this is not our problem.

Agreed. It sounds almost Incel, that OP now owes this stranger more dates because there’s no proof he’s a rapist or not.

@Dibbydoos

No ones are guilty unless convicted - that's our civil code, but our society is judgmental isn't it?

He told you this on date 3. He didn't need to, but he did. Your friend says it's likely a false claim, and yet you question him. Yabu imo.

He told her because he’s playing the ‘look, I’m so honest and upfront’ card, making it difficult for OP to dump him because it looks like she’d be dumping him because of the rape accusation.

If he was innocent, why mention it?

@Arabellla I agree totally. I don't understand
why this is a 3rd date disclosure. It you were on date 10 perhaps, but date 3 feels manipulative

The guy can't win can he?

If he tells you, it's a red flag.

If he doesnt tell you, it's also a red flag.

All the women on here saying the women don't make up rape allegations: how do you know this? There are some nasty, vengeful women out there.

If he's in a job that needs an enhanced DBS and he hasn't lost his job as a result then I would give the benefit of the doubt personally but it's up to you.

*The guy can’t win can he?’

Or possibly he’s already won - yet another man who got away with raping his partner.

[quote Dollyparton3]@Arabellla I agree totally. I don't understand
why this is a 3rd date disclosure. It you were on date 10 perhaps, but date 3 feels manipulative [/quote]
Agreed, @Dollyparton3

@THisbackwithavengeance.

You're right that he's damned if he doesn't and damned if he does. But no-one is saying that women don't make up false allegations. It's just extremely rare. Have we not learnt anything from #metoo?

I think it was covered a few pages back but a DBS check isn't particularly useful as it cannot predict whether someone is a rapist or paedophile etc. We've had a big case locally where children in schools were abused despite a teacher having a clear DBS check.

Anyway, the OP can walk away without judging the man but on the basis of solid statistics and probability. That's not accusing him of anything but using common sense. He'll get over it. The question she needs to ask herself is could she. I doubt it.

@seaniboy. I'm a man. How about close to 100% of men are rapists almost all of the time? That's not a slight on men but to not recognise it is an insult to women.

This is tough. Personally I would stop seeing him. Yes it's crap on him if he not guilty but if you don't know this guy ie met him on line rather than through friends/work. Then I'd get out before being too invested.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

If there had been conclusive evidence that she had falsely accused him, they would have arrested her or taken it to trial

No ... as a PP already mentioned, they sometimes avoid doing this because they don't want to deter women from reporting possibly borderline cases

The same happened with someone I used to know who freely admitted she'd lied about the whole thing; apparently it "didn't matter because so many get away with it so what's one more?"

Nonsense. My partner works in CID and they would not stop a case going to CPS and CPS would not stop it going to court if there was sufficient evidence - just for a moral victory. They don't make decisions on cases based on how it would look to the public, they base it on how much evidence they have and how it will stand up in court.

If they don't have enough evidence, then yes, it's a more subjective decision as to whether it can be prosecuted or not. So, the only thing OP knows for sure is there was not conclusive, sufficient evidence.

Jesus Christ, why on earth would you want to risk your life on a suspected rapist who has NOT been proven innocent? There is zero evidence that shows he didn't do it: and just because someone's knows someone who made a false accusation, doesn't mean this woman did. There's no way of knowing - no amount of stats, or quoting the law or anecdotes will prove to OP that she can be alone with him and feel 100% safe he won't rape her. Because no one other than the 2 people, him and his ex, know what happened.

A detailed police investigation and they don't know. OP doesn't even know if the police did even look into it as a false accusation or made it up.

She doesn't even know if she goes on the next date and decides to not sleep with him, or decides to end it, he won't rape her. Is this really the beginning of a great love story, wondering if your date will rape you or not! Bloody hell.