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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What to think! Guy I am dating told me something?

550 replies

Musinglife11 · 17/02/2022 19:03

Went on a third date with a guy. He is nice and we connect well. I just felt comfortable around him.

He told me a few years back he was arrested and investigated for attempted rape. He was accused by an ex as revenge. He was investigated for 6 months, but charges dropped ( no further evidence?). He said it tore his life apart as he couldn’t work and nearly suffered a breakdown.

Said it was a revenge accusation. It didn't happen, but he wanted to be honest. He showed me emails from the police saying no further evidence. He said she got investigated for false allegations but police decided not to charge.

I spoke to a friend who is a police detective and he said it will most likely be false as it was investigated very quickly as these things can take up to a year or more.

How would you feel being told this? I am undecided as he seems really nice and was broken telling me. But it has made me slow things down, as it was very serious allegation that got investigated!

OP posts:
pucelleauxblanchesmains · 18/02/2022 00:38

@cuno Yeah I can read thanks, I didn't just sit on my keyboard and log onto the thread by mistake. But even in a scenario where @saraclara is explicitly talking about a hypothetical innocent man you keep nitpicking about how he might not be innocent after all, so the inference there is pretty clear.

saraclara · 18/02/2022 00:39

Yep. I'm reminded of the thread about the lack of comprehension skills on mumsnet.

I have not vilified OP for considering whether to continue to see this man. I have not ever excused rape. It's quite insane that anyone should read my posts and think that I'm a rape apologist.

There are since stunningly irrational posts on this thread. In any other thread posters like Mrs Bertha Rochester would get a roasting. But somehow there's a blind spot when it comes to this subject. And it's my polite and reasoned posts that are resulting in me getting called a rape apologist.

Bedtime.

cuno · 18/02/2022 00:43

@pucelleauxblanchesmains
The issue though is how do we know it is a false accusation on the rapist's say so? All rapists will claim they were falsely accused. The vast majority of rape accusations are legitimate. If someone is found guilty of making false accusations, that is different to a guy saying he has a crazy ex who made up he raped her because she's jealous.

Really the only sensible thing to do is not stick around for someone so-called falsely accused. Because we don't know if it false or not! I mean unless he was with you on the alleged date of rape or whatever, then it is foolish to give the accused the benefit of the doubt. I don't think it's good enough that someone is nice or charming or they spun you a good story about why they are innocent.

seaniboy · 18/02/2022 00:43

[quote cuno]@seaniboy

It's SEX not GENDER. And no thank you, I will not be removing this issue from sex and making this a gender neutral debate, 99% of sex offenders are men. The problem is men. Women can and do commit sexual offences, no-one is denying that, but it is a rarity and not supported by the patriarchal society we live in.[/quote]
99% of documented statistics are men. Same as male domestic abuse being low.

Having worked in public sector males maturity means it all comes out 30+ mainly (maturity) where it's almost impossible for singular cases, boys most often are sexually assaulted by men. So it's not gender exclusive to females especially at a developmental age as a minor.

If more boys and men were not made shamed by woman saying it's gender based and it's all men then more men would feel less suffocated by society and thus more would be prosecuted by men and woman victims, you are losing your own war by excluding males on one hand and also calli v them out to be the main perpetraitors. Society has to move forward with that and more men who commit these crimes against girls/boys and men/woman will be jailed.

Statistics because of this are flawed, the rates are higher than reported for woman but they are alot higher for men, a NHS worker or Council employee can't force someone or the police to record it, so statistics in male victims of sexual crimes are absolutely flawed, more than females.

That's why we have to take the shame away for male victims, especially male minors as a rapist is likely to rape either gender as it's about power. Refusing to accept it's individual not gender makes alot of boys and men not talk till it's too late, that is a inequality females places on male victims with shame when they could be gender neutral and build boys and males to take action against the same... Sexual perpetraitors, in doing this society wins and these scum get taken off the streets and it's safer for all male and females of any age.

Sex is a activity, gender is a human identifying form.

It puzzles me same sex rights were fought by woman for bi/gay men as a foundation but sexual crimes are the complete opposite, wheres a male victims rights when woman want to talk about how FEMALE victims are the superior victims.

A victim of a crime is a victim, a sexual victim is a victim, gender aside telling males somehow your domestic abuse or sexual crimes etc is less meaningful is discriminative.

Woman didn't burn their bras and fight for the right to vote so only woman could prosper, certainly they be disgusted that you can't be a male victim of male sexual crime because 99% documented statistics are male & as a male you aren't a victim.

That's reductive to a functioning society, if male victims felt heard and supported they are more likely to jail a male sexual predator and that in itself protects alot more woman with the 99% of men who aren't rapists or sexual perpetraitors of either gender.

99% works both ways, females aren't the only victims and a VICTIM by law doesn't have a human gender, that's all you and all females are being asked to apply, then more shame goes and alot more men are jailed making the streets safer for all remaining.

Frankly I don't get if DNA & other physical evidence proves rape why that isnt a life sentence, and I mean FOR life, same as murder, you've proceed youself not fit as a non risk to humans.

cuno · 18/02/2022 00:47

[quote pucelleauxblanchesmains]@cuno* Yeah I can read thanks, I didn't just sit on my keyboard and log onto the thread by mistake. But even in a scenario where *@saraclara is explicitly talking about a hypothetical innocent man you keep nitpicking about how he might not be innocent after all, so the inference there is pretty clear.[/quote]
But @saraclara is disingenuously using the term "falsely accused", she seems to use that term about any man who is accused and spins enough of a good tale judging by her posts.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 18/02/2022 00:50

@seaniboy

Nobody is saying men don't get raped.

Nobody is saying that being raped as a man is any less awful and life changing than being raped as a woman.

The point people are making is that it is still men doing the raping, whether women or men are the victims.

If a gay or bi guy wrote the OP and asked for advice, the same people who said it's not worth the risk of continuing seeing him would stilll say that.

Rape is very much a male form of violence. It IS sex specific when it comes to the sex of the perpetrators.

cuno · 18/02/2022 00:55

@seaniboy

No-one is denying there are male victims. But the vast majority of perpetrators are male, so we need to address the issue in this context rather than pretending men and women are equally responsible and the act of rape exists in a vacuum rather than influenced by a patriarchal society? It's foolish to pretend that men aren't responsible for most rape, murder, sexual assault, violent crime and so on. Doing so is dangerous and doesn't get to the root of the issue. We can never address the issue if we pretend it's not an issue for males.

Most girls and women don't come forward either, so it's a bit of a moot point saying that males don't come forward therefore the stats aren't real.

Funny that you say sex is an activity and it's gender not sex, then go on to to talk about same-sex rights. Make up your mind.

And who are you to lecture about women didn't burn their bras for only women to prosper? Can you not see that females are the oppressed sex? Women are allowed to centre themselves in feminism, you know. That is kind of the point.

DdraigGoch · 18/02/2022 01:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

seaniboy · 18/02/2022 01:14

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@seaniboy

Nobody is saying men don't get raped.

Nobody is saying that being raped as a man is any less awful and life changing than being raped as a woman.

The point people are making is that it is still men doing the raping, whether women or men are the victims.

If a gay or bi guy wrote the OP and asked for advice, the same people who said it's not worth the risk of continuing seeing him would stilll say that.

Rape is very much a male form of violence. It IS sex specific when it comes to the sex of the perpetrators. [/quote]
And when F keep saying to men in the public arena under 30 whos brains aren't fully developed is "you are male - a perpetraitor - not a victim. The 99% statistics say that is absolute proof" that is a injustice to men, male victims and society.

Woman then dismiss young men the victim of sexual crime. That's what females are telling male victims en masse. We own #metoo! Now I stand by metoo but where are the woman of the movement telling men to speak out about toxic sexual male predators ? They aren't, thus more toxic males are getting away with past crimes.

So to have men open up and have crimes processed we as a society have to say look we know 99 sexual is men against woman but what are the real stats including male victims?

The 99% is a small number of actual men. And we are only talking about sexual.

What are the real numbers of domestic abuse against men, financial, mental, physical?

Men don't talk ? Men dont open up,en need to talk about being sexual victims. Well look at you saying that 99% of crimes are men, in context that's not 99% of men, it's a small minority of men.

The gender and language has to change to make domestic and sexual crimes more inclusive where men will come forward rather than your own of the 99%, it has become to feminist and not enough victim based.

Victims jail people not females, exclusively.

And no it's gender specific, and some perpetraitors like both victims.

One one hand woman want men to open up, on the other hand throwing 99% men around is making male victims submissive to not speak up.

The real stats are woman victims v court cases/outcomes and then the same for men.

You'll find three percentages for both men and woman

Reported/investigated/guilty/not guilty (also 'not proven' as a fifth in Scotland).

Then look at that as a more representitve number than throwing 99% about.

Biology makes a more sexual being, man period 24/7, designed to survive the species, a gentleman rarely makes a rapist.

So more than one factor comes into it, just as more than one gender is guilty and more so more than one gender is victims.

Domestic abuse and sexual crime perpetraitors are of both genders, it time we told all victims to speak up not wave 99% flags like a feminist nationalist metoo movement, the end goal is men and woman alike want men and female (especially sexual) perpetraitors off our streets for the safety of everyone.

Holskey · 18/02/2022 01:25

Sexual assault is not rare amongst men: the motivation is obvious, instances happen relatively quickly and often with ease, and too many men don't even know what consitutes assault (not an excuse).

However, everyone knows what a malicious lie is, and most people would not be motivated enough by hurt feelings to carry out a protracted lie which, to be successful, will have to stand up against interrogation and investigation over a long period. It's not done in the heat of the moment. And there will always be backlash for accusing someone, even if you're truthful. Severe consequences if you're found to be lying.

She'd have to be attention-seeking, self-centred, immoral and drama-loving. Why would he associate with someone so awful? That would be my first question. If she seems decent, I'd be inclined to believe her. Rapists are impossible to spot.

seaniboy · 18/02/2022 01:27

[quote cuno]@seaniboy

No-one is denying there are male victims. But the vast majority of perpetrators are male, so we need to address the issue in this context rather than pretending men and women are equally responsible and the act of rape exists in a vacuum rather than influenced by a patriarchal society? It's foolish to pretend that men aren't responsible for most rape, murder, sexual assault, violent crime and so on. Doing so is dangerous and doesn't get to the root of the issue. We can never address the issue if we pretend it's not an issue for males.

Most girls and women don't come forward either, so it's a bit of a moot point saying that males don't come forward therefore the stats aren't real.

Funny that you say sex is an activity and it's gender not sex, then go on to to talk about same-sex rights. Make up your mind.

And who are you to lecture about women didn't burn their bras for only women to prosper? Can you not see that females are the oppressed sex? Women are allowed to centre themselves in feminism, you know. That is kind of the point.[/quote]
Read my last post.

I'm saying using 99% isn't appropriate it's lambasting a gender, if anything usual annual figures to show trends.

It not healthy to society using 99% because it implies it 99% of men which is literally fake news.

It also represses male victims, sexual crimes are crimes, you can't wave a flag that's almost deliberate misleading, a small number of men make up the 99%.

madeincalifornia2022 · 18/02/2022 01:31

When I was dating my ex husband, he told me that he had been accused of raping a girl while on holiday in Europe. He said that it was revenge for not calling the girl back after a one night stand and that they had done bdsm “things”. I felt so sorry for him, as he had told me this after some argument we had. His parents had come over, paid a top lawyer and he came back to the Uk with charges dropped.

Two years later, we got married, and he started to act weird after we had plans to move to the US. I confided in one of his friends that he was acting very odd when this was something we had planned, and thought he might be scared about the Italy issue given that the victim was from the US. The friend had been with him on this trip. This friend then shocked, turned around and said you didn’t know?… he had also been accused of rape while at Uni in the UK and it was a big issue that was covered up. This was now my husband.

My ex said it had destroyed his life and even going to one of the best universities in the Uk, meant he could not get a job because of the “toll”.

I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but while this was happening my ex husband started to get very violent sexually with me and stopped being the same person. I ended up having to call the police one night and left him.

My point is be very careful of being too understanding or empathetic. Trust your gut, I suspect like me who went to forums to get answers at the time, you’re not sure.

seaniboy · 18/02/2022 01:37

Damn hit post lol

We are all equal unless we break the law.

I use the term same-sex as that's what the legislation states, bu to society has moved forward to gender rightfully so.

I was brought up by a bra burning woman who made made me a gentlemen, to be inclusive to all, unless they deserved exclusion, to keep my mouth shut unless it was progressive to any situation, to not be anything like her abusive husband she left with 4 kids when in a time such was frowmed upon.

Sexually or at home we a have the right to be safe, that's a human right.

But segregation of victims via gender is counterproductive to the cause, even if 99% of one gender are responsible for see sexual that's a small % of the whole population of men. Turning DA/sexual crimes into a feminist movement isn't right, the rates of DA against men as woman got more rights got larger.

We all deserve to be safe and treated equally as when we become victims, gender stats flag waving is saying men don't suffer either when men documented stats are way lower than reality Vs woman documented stat.

Caring is sharing, not flag waving (just look at brexit mess!)

seaniboy · 18/02/2022 01:40

@madeincalifornia2022

When I was dating my ex husband, he told me that he had been accused of raping a girl while on holiday in Europe. He said that it was revenge for not calling the girl back after a one night stand and that they had done bdsm “things”. I felt so sorry for him, as he had told me this after some argument we had. His parents had come over, paid a top lawyer and he came back to the Uk with charges dropped.

Two years later, we got married, and he started to act weird after we had plans to move to the US. I confided in one of his friends that he was acting very odd when this was something we had planned, and thought he might be scared about the Italy issue given that the victim was from the US. The friend had been with him on this trip. This friend then shocked, turned around and said you didn’t know?… he had also been accused of rape while at Uni in the UK and it was a big issue that was covered up. This was now my husband.

My ex said it had destroyed his life and even going to one of the best universities in the Uk, meant he could not get a job because of the “toll”.

I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but while this was happening my ex husband started to get very violent sexually with me and stopped being the same person. I ended up having to call the police one night and left him.

My point is be very careful of being too understanding or empathetic. Trust your gut, I suspect like me who went to forums to get answers at the time, you’re not sure.

Sorry to hear that, yes get that Claire's Law Domestic Abuse report OP.

Hope life is better now MIC23 Smile

peboh · 18/02/2022 01:44

The fact that he told you on date 3 is very telling to me. He's controlling the narrative, getting ahead of the story. This is a red flag!
The reason he wasn't convicted was a lack of evidence, which is unfortunately super common in rape charges. Is there a chance he was falsely accused? Yes. Is that a chance you're really willing to take though? I think you really need to think about your own safety in all of this. You'll never know the truth, and you don't know this man enough to trust his word. Don't take the risk!

DdraigGoch · 18/02/2022 01:49

Reality is - you will never know, unless he rapes you.

This sums it up, OP. It's one heck of a risk to take. But then someone without that history could also turn out to be an abuser so you are always taking a risk with a new date anyway.

If you do decide to continue dating, please take even more precautions than you normally would. Don't meet in either yours or his homes until you are well established and ready to take things to the next level. I wouldn't even consider escalating the relationship for quite a bit longer than normal. Even if/when you are willing to have sex with him, remember that rape isn't the worst thing that a man could do to you, he could go further - as happened to victims like Grace. If he really has been falsely accused, I'd expect that he would be avoiding all intimate situations as he would feel unable to trust anyone, just like a PP's ex. Any readiness to jump into bed on his part would in my mind indicate that he was lying.

Most rapes take place in either the victim's or the offender's home and these are the ones where it is virtually impossible to prove whether consent was given. Stick to meeting in busy public spaces for the time being - it's no guarantee of safety but it's something (and before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not victim-blaming or implying that anyone who visits a man's flat is reckless). Arrange with a friend to use phone tracking apps when you go to meet him.

Just remember that this decision should be made on what you consider to be best for you. Don't let any pity for him influence your choice, you don't owe him anything.

user1481840227 · 18/02/2022 01:58

@seaniboy

Women saying that males are the perpetrators is not saying that they can't be victims of it too.

My son is 16 so he's without the fully developed brain you speak of and he understands this completely. People under 30 aren't simpletons.

Male victims spoke out against Kevin Spacey in the #metoo movement, males were free to share their stories about the sexual violence they suffered at the hands of men.

All this talk about men coming forward, do you realise that most women don't come forward?? Most women who have been raped know that they won't be believed or nothing will happen. Many of the small percentage of women who come forward then say they were raped again by the system.

Men don't talk? Plenty of women don't talk either. Among my friends it's taken most of us until we are in our 30s to even acknowledge that things from our past were rape or serious assault. For some of us we're told it was rape but we can't say the word out loud or we try to shake it off and pretend it never happened. There's plenty who never share it with anyone, for a million different reasons.

There are often threads on here where women have very clearly suffered serious sexual abuse or rape, sometimes in a relationship, sometimes not...but yet they are completely confused about whether they are overreacting or not. They are normally completely underreacting!

One very recent thread was from a woman who thought she was asexual because she didn't enjoy it when every single night her 'partner' forced himself on her or ejaculated on her face without permission.

You need to understand that it is not women that is stopping men from coming forward or from not thinking they were victims etc. it is the very act of rape or sexual assault that causes those feelings of shame....and that an extremely common response for all victims of rape whether male or female is to not fully believe that they were a victim.

Booklover3 · 18/02/2022 01:58

I would run a mile!

cuno · 18/02/2022 02:10

@seaniboy

And when F keep saying to men in the public arena under 30 whos brains aren't fully developed is "you are male - a perpetraitor - not a victim. The 99% statistics say that is absolute proof" that is a injustice to men, male victims and society.

Oh so women are F now? Hmm why couldn't you muster the word women?
Women aren't going around saying to men under 30 that they are male and a perpetrator and not a victim. That is literally not happening.
And why the emphasis on men being under 30 with brains not fully developed? I find it a bit odd that you felt the need to say that. Like oh poor little men who don't know any better being brainwashed by big evil women.

What about the women under 30 with brains not fully developed being silenced by men who tell them they are lying about being raped? Or that they were asking for it? Or that they liked it? Or that that are sluts? And so on.

Woman then dismiss young men the victim of sexual crime. That's what females are telling male victims en masse. We own #metoo! Now I stand by metoo but where are the woman of the movement telling men to speak out about toxic sexual male predators ? They aren't, thus more toxic males are getting away with past crimes.

It is patriarchal structures largely enforced by men that dismiss male victims of sexual crimes. Blaming women for toxic masculinity is incredibly short sighted. Women may or may not conform to the patriarchy, but they are not the ones who have held and continue to hold the power for centuries and created all these rules through their own misogyny that men torture themselves with. It's a fucking byproduct.

And why the everliving fuck is it women's responsibility to get men to speak out? What about men's responsibility? No-one looks out for women apart from women, but men expect women to look out for men as well. It's tiring. It's exhausting. Men can fight for men, that is not my battle. I've had enough of it. Women already have so much on their fucking plate.

And the point of #metoo is to bring justice to rapists and abusers. It just so happens that most of these voices are women, because women have more experiences of rape and sexual abuse. We can't just shut up about our own awful experiences to make room for yours. Women speaking up about the abuse they have faced does not make men get away with abusing men, wtf.

The 99% is a small number of actual men. And we are only talking about sexual.

Men don't talk ? Men dont open up,en need to talk about being sexual victims. Well look at you saying that 99% of crimes are men, in context that's not 99% of men, it's a small minority of men.

Literally no-one said 99% of men are rapists but carry on making up shit to clutch at straws. However, I disagree that it is a small minority of men, I genuinely think most men (more than 50%) have either raped, sexually assaulted or sexually harassed a woman. Why? Because that's what mine and many women's experiences allude to. It's absolutely not a small minority of men though no matter which way you look at it, unless you genuinely think a handful of men are going up and down the country abusing almost all the women. Funnily enough, me and my friends seem to have different abusers so can't be that surely. Hmm

The gender and language has to change to make domestic and sexual crimes more inclusive where men will come forward rather than your own of the 99%, it has become to feminist and not enough victim based.

If 99% of reported sexual offences are perpetrated by males, then that is a fact and there is nothing wrong with stating that, and it is entirely relevant. You only want women to be silent about the truth because that would be beneficial to you, it must be uncomfortable to know that you share the same sex with 99% of sex offenders. But that does not mean we are calling you a sex offender, ffs. Just please check your own biases here.

Not sure wtf you mean by gender has to change?? Perhaps men should make that so by raping less, just a suggesting. (And repeat after me, it is sex not gender).

And no it's gender specific, and some perpetraitors like both victims.

I'm sure some perpetrators are bisexual... what is your point??? No-one said otherwise.

One one hand woman want men to open up, on the other hand throwing 99% men around is making male victims submissive to not speak up.

Men should want men to open up, again why is this on women? And I can't change the overwhelming number of male sex offenders to make male victims feel more comfortable. And I refuse to lie about it as well.

Biology makes a more sexual being, man period 24/7, designed to survive the species, a gentleman rarely makes a rapist.

We're just talking about men and women as groups. No-one used the word gentleman apart from you, but I find it to be a very outdated term. Depends on what you think a gentleman is exactly?

So more than one factor comes into it, just as more than one gender is guilty and more so more than one gender is victims.

Stop conflating gender with sex, good grief. But yes there are people of either sex who may or may not be a perpetrator or victim... but again the fact is it is overwhelmingly men doing it.

Domestic abuse and sexual crime perpetraitors are of both genders, it time we told all victims to speak up not wave 99% flags like a feminist nationalist metoo movement

Not sure what any of this has to do with nationalism, but there is zero shame in feminism or the #metoo movement. I am a feminist and proud of that. You seem to be using this as an insult.

The end goal is men and woman alike want men and female (especially sexual) perpetraitors off our streets for the safety of everyone.

That's not true though. Men aren't as bothered about it as women because they don't feel at risk to it. That's why you mainly see women fighting for it and rarely men. Men usually only speak up about it as a silencing and manipulation tactic on women (woman complains about rape and fear of men, man tells her it happens to men too, but outside of this context man does not show any interest to it).

Also lots of men out there enjoy using and abusing women so would disagree with that sentiment, although they may not admit it. At the end of the day, the patriarchal structures are largely beneficial to men.

It not healthy to society using 99% because it implies it 99% of men which is literally fake news.

It's not literally fake news at all when you are purposely taking the 99% figure out of context and maipulating it and pretending people are saying 99% of men are rapists when no-one said that. Fake news is such an old tired phrase, anyway.

It also represses male victims, sexual crimes are crimes, you can't wave a flag that's almost deliberate misleading, a small number of men make up the 99%.

You are the one deliberately misleading by taking what women have said and twisting it to mean something else.

So so much talk in your posts about women this women that, blaming women for men being sexually abused and not speaking out about it. Where's the blame on men? Nah, it's always women. Just like it was Eve in the Garden of Eden. Yawn.

cuno · 18/02/2022 02:40

@seaniboy

I use the term same-sex as that's what the legislation states, bu to society has moved forward to gender rightfully so

No, thank you.

I was brought up by a bra burning woman

Did she actually burn bras? Why do you keep repeating this turn of phrase? It's really not relevant whether she burned bras or not. Unless you are trying to say she is a feminist, in which case just say she is a feminist. I find it incredibly reductive to refer to feminists as "bra burning women" regardless of whether they burned bras.

who made made me a gentlemen, to be inclusive to all, unless they deserved exclusion, to keep my mouth shut unless it was progressive to any situation

Well I find what you are saying here to be incredibly regressive rather than progressive so I wonder what she would make of that. And feminists don't raise their sons to be gentlemen, just like I don't raise my daughter to be a lady. What sexist twaddle. If you mean a decent human being, then just say so.

But segregation of victims via gender is counterproductive to the cause, even if 99% of one gender are responsible for see sexual that's a small % of the whole population of men. Turning DA/sexual crimes into a feminist movement isn't right, the rates of DA against men as woman got more rights got larger.

Male on female violence, male on male violence, female on male violence, and female on female violence are all different things that happen for different reasons and it is really important to regard them as such in order to get to the root of it. If you just view it as a human without a sex attacking another human... then how can we tackle misogyny? Stop getting so offended by facts. And we absolutely do need feminism to tackle this! Make your own movement or join another one to address male-on-male violence. Let women advocate for women, because god only knows no-one else will.

And I find it offensive that you to claim women gaining rights increases domestic violence against men... are you suggesting we scrap feminism to protect the men? Screw women.

And surely if all things were equal, then domestic violence rates between men and women would be equal. That is not saying those instances are acceptable. But suggesting that a fuckton more men abusing women versus still a lot of men but also little bit of women abusing partners is the lesser of two evils, is absolutely warped thinking. It's suggesting men's lives and livelihoods are intrinsically worth more than women's and that it's better that a million women suffer instead of a hundred thousand women plus a thousand men. Those numbers pulled out of thin air to illustrate a point before you bash me for it.

We all deserve to be safe and treated equally as when we become victims, gender stats flag waving is saying men don't suffer either when men documented stats are way lower than reality Vs woman documented stat.

Pointing out facts and statistics is not saying that men don't suffer. It's pointing out that, well, most abusers are men. Because it's true! And women's documented stats are also way lower than reality.

Caring is sharing

No, thank you.

seaniboy · 18/02/2022 02:49

[quote user1481840227]@seaniboy

Women saying that males are the perpetrators is not saying that they can't be victims of it too.

My son is 16 so he's without the fully developed brain you speak of and he understands this completely. People under 30 aren't simpletons.

Male victims spoke out against Kevin Spacey in the #metoo movement, males were free to share their stories about the sexual violence they suffered at the hands of men.

All this talk about men coming forward, do you realise that most women don't come forward?? Most women who have been raped know that they won't be believed or nothing will happen. Many of the small percentage of women who come forward then say they were raped again by the system.

Men don't talk? Plenty of women don't talk either. Among my friends it's taken most of us until we are in our 30s to even acknowledge that things from our past were rape or serious assault. For some of us we're told it was rape but we can't say the word out loud or we try to shake it off and pretend it never happened. There's plenty who never share it with anyone, for a million different reasons.

There are often threads on here where women have very clearly suffered serious sexual abuse or rape, sometimes in a relationship, sometimes not...but yet they are completely confused about whether they are overreacting or not. They are normally completely underreacting!

One very recent thread was from a woman who thought she was asexual because she didn't enjoy it when every single night her 'partner' forced himself on her or ejaculated on her face without permission.

You need to understand that it is not women that is stopping men from coming forward or from not thinking they were victims etc. it is the very act of rape or sexual assault that causes those feelings of shame....and that an extremely common response for all victims of rape whether male or female is to not fully believe that they were a victim.[/quote]
Waving a inaccurate 99% flag is doing that though. Figures aren't always 99% year on year, and what are the figures. And that 99% implies men are criminals and only 1% are gentlemen sexually.

Most kids dont get a proper unbringing how to conduct themselves so well done you. Did you teach him sexual abuse before nursery ? Again most parents dont!??

A famous male called it out, who was also accused! What famous female did?

KS made the male victim problem worse doing that as a perceived and called out perpetraitor, and no woman said to male victims talk up first off, sexual crimes are based on the old assumption men aren't victims, same as domestic violence, Im all for female rights but not where men aren't given the same back. If F want equality in a area yes but give it back.

"Men are perpetraitors not victims" is exactly what that is saying.

More woman go forward than men in DA/sexual crimes. The shame men suffer as the 'stronger' sex (of yester year) is the same reason they don't talk and most suicides are young men.

The things I could say about my local police/council/NHS would get me libel, but I can assure you there are many toxic sexual males on public funded employment and if you need to speak to anyone in a public body about such ASK for a female, or else the report will not be near accurate. And even then woman in public employment will protect the organisation/public funded employee class. That's what is institutionlaised when men come forward with sexual crimes especially sexual crimes against public funded employee class, these people work for themselves not you the taxpayers funders, society.

The problem is alot of men are in public positions and even female staff won't rock the boat for thier career over the safety of kids.

If we as a society don't change that within public funded services your are right females and men alike aren't being educated or listened too the problem will never go away because the built is placed on them by public funded bodies treatment of victims.

I've heard someone who was gay being implied "you wanted it" numerous times by numerous public bodies because a man raped him.

I remember my own experiences in public funded work bringing up my work hours being against the EU Directive and how I was treated.

If any of you sent your kids to nursery without NSPCC pants song etc do it asap www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/support-for-parents/pants-underwear-rule/

Public funded bodies and police by default protect their own pension plan funds over anyone. The Diamonds leave suffocated by the narcassist coal surrounding them.

Sexual crime? If you are a female you are treated with some (but not enough) respect by public funded bodies, men not so. As you said, it's like double trauma.

The failure of public funded bodies to follow any legislation is high. I found working private sector with some of the most challenged people wanting 16 hrs Child Tax Credit to be more consistent and common sense than any public funded body I've every had to deal with as a employee and as a user.

If equality really was served most them wouldn't have jobs, and how they speak about citizens when the phone goes down is beyind unethical.

The risk of sexual crimes and domestic abuse is high to all of us because public funded don't really give a hoot.

Try a 2 stage complaints process and Ombudsman and see how many times they change your complaint or ignore parts of it that are legal entitlements, you are there to find them good wages, pensions for buying cars and houses. Most pre Child Tax Credit came from council houses and are self protectionist.

I honestly cant go into alot of details but be aware, NSPCC Pants stuff is something every parent pre nursery must do with their kids.

Male police officers, many give no crap about sexual crimes, especially if men are the victims who are seen as weak and generally labelled as liars and theu say they can't get no evidence, if you are a sexual or domestic abuse victim you are the evidence it's for them to prove to the Crown you aren't.

lemmein · 18/02/2022 02:58

As I said way back, I knew a woman who was shamelessly open about telling us that she had accused an ex boyfriend of rape, as revenge. It happens, and for that person it's devastating.

Course you did Hmm Amazing how many people on this thread know someone who has been falsely accused, but nobody knows a rapist - funny that.

Society is fucked, I swear we're going backwards!

seaniboy · 18/02/2022 03:19

[quote cuno]@seaniboy

And when F keep saying to men in the public arena under 30 whos brains aren't fully developed is "you are male - a perpetraitor - not a victim. The 99% statistics say that is absolute proof" that is a injustice to men, male victims and society.

Oh so women are F now? Hmm why couldn't you muster the word women?
Women aren't going around saying to men under 30 that they are male and a perpetrator and not a victim. That is literally not happening.
And why the emphasis on men being under 30 with brains not fully developed? I find it a bit odd that you felt the need to say that. Like oh poor little men who don't know any better being brainwashed by big evil women.

What about the women under 30 with brains not fully developed being silenced by men who tell them they are lying about being raped? Or that they were asking for it? Or that they liked it? Or that that are sluts? And so on.

Woman then dismiss young men the victim of sexual crime. That's what females are telling male victims en masse. We own #metoo! Now I stand by metoo but where are the woman of the movement telling men to speak out about toxic sexual male predators ? They aren't, thus more toxic males are getting away with past crimes.

It is patriarchal structures largely enforced by men that dismiss male victims of sexual crimes. Blaming women for toxic masculinity is incredibly short sighted. Women may or may not conform to the patriarchy, but they are not the ones who have held and continue to hold the power for centuries and created all these rules through their own misogyny that men torture themselves with. It's a fucking byproduct.

And why the everliving fuck is it women's responsibility to get men to speak out? What about men's responsibility? No-one looks out for women apart from women, but men expect women to look out for men as well. It's tiring. It's exhausting. Men can fight for men, that is not my battle. I've had enough of it. Women already have so much on their fucking plate.

And the point of #metoo is to bring justice to rapists and abusers. It just so happens that most of these voices are women, because women have more experiences of rape and sexual abuse. We can't just shut up about our own awful experiences to make room for yours. Women speaking up about the abuse they have faced does not make men get away with abusing men, wtf.

The 99% is a small number of actual men. And we are only talking about sexual.

Men don't talk ? Men dont open up,en need to talk about being sexual victims. Well look at you saying that 99% of crimes are men, in context that's not 99% of men, it's a small minority of men.

Literally no-one said 99% of men are rapists but carry on making up shit to clutch at straws. However, I disagree that it is a small minority of men, I genuinely think most men (more than 50%) have either raped, sexually assaulted or sexually harassed a woman. Why? Because that's what mine and many women's experiences allude to. It's absolutely not a small minority of men though no matter which way you look at it, unless you genuinely think a handful of men are going up and down the country abusing almost all the women. Funnily enough, me and my friends seem to have different abusers so can't be that surely. Hmm

The gender and language has to change to make domestic and sexual crimes more inclusive where men will come forward rather than your own of the 99%, it has become to feminist and not enough victim based.

If 99% of reported sexual offences are perpetrated by males, then that is a fact and there is nothing wrong with stating that, and it is entirely relevant. You only want women to be silent about the truth because that would be beneficial to you, it must be uncomfortable to know that you share the same sex with 99% of sex offenders. But that does not mean we are calling you a sex offender, ffs. Just please check your own biases here.

Not sure wtf you mean by gender has to change?? Perhaps men should make that so by raping less, just a suggesting. (And repeat after me, it is sex not gender).

And no it's gender specific, and some perpetraitors like both victims.

I'm sure some perpetrators are bisexual... what is your point??? No-one said otherwise.

One one hand woman want men to open up, on the other hand throwing 99% men around is making male victims submissive to not speak up.

Men should want men to open up, again why is this on women? And I can't change the overwhelming number of male sex offenders to make male victims feel more comfortable. And I refuse to lie about it as well.

Biology makes a more sexual being, man period 24/7, designed to survive the species, a gentleman rarely makes a rapist.

We're just talking about men and women as groups. No-one used the word gentleman apart from you, but I find it to be a very outdated term. Depends on what you think a gentleman is exactly?

So more than one factor comes into it, just as more than one gender is guilty and more so more than one gender is victims.

Stop conflating gender with sex, good grief. But yes there are people of either sex who may or may not be a perpetrator or victim... but again the fact is it is overwhelmingly men doing it.

Domestic abuse and sexual crime perpetraitors are of both genders, it time we told all victims to speak up not wave 99% flags like a feminist nationalist metoo movement

Not sure what any of this has to do with nationalism, but there is zero shame in feminism or the #metoo movement. I am a feminist and proud of that. You seem to be using this as an insult.

The end goal is men and woman alike want men and female (especially sexual) perpetraitors off our streets for the safety of everyone.

That's not true though. Men aren't as bothered about it as women because they don't feel at risk to it. That's why you mainly see women fighting for it and rarely men. Men usually only speak up about it as a silencing and manipulation tactic on women (woman complains about rape and fear of men, man tells her it happens to men too, but outside of this context man does not show any interest to it).

Also lots of men out there enjoy using and abusing women so would disagree with that sentiment, although they may not admit it. At the end of the day, the patriarchal structures are largely beneficial to men.

It not healthy to society using 99% because it implies it 99% of men which is literally fake news.

It's not literally fake news at all when you are purposely taking the 99% figure out of context and maipulating it and pretending people are saying 99% of men are rapists when no-one said that. Fake news is such an old tired phrase, anyway.

It also represses male victims, sexual crimes are crimes, you can't wave a flag that's almost deliberate misleading, a small number of men make up the 99%.

You are the one deliberately misleading by taking what women have said and twisting it to mean something else.

So so much talk in your posts about women this women that, blaming women for men being sexually abused and not speaking out about it. Where's the blame on men? Nah, it's always women. Just like it was Eve in the Garden of Eden. Yawn.[/quote]
I typed female, autocorrect.

Science has proven ghe 4 stages of maturity of the male brain, after 4 and testosterone dropping and a mid life crisis "how did I get here I don't Sign up for all this" and walking out, men are easily manipulated by woman who mature much quicker due to the biology of the female body, when 35+ is a higher risk to woman carrying child men are generally having mid life crisis.

I don't condone that behaviour anymore than I do any male police officer investigating such, that is a place sexual crimes of either gender that having male officers involved is toxic by design, because statistics show men are more likely to be the perpetrators so why would other men investigate that, especially men with no legal or medical or social work degree, all male officers should have one of these to be allowed near sexual crimes investigations or data, if you don't remove the non degree toxic there you'll never remove it from society to any acceptable percentage or standard. Male officers should not be involved with sexual crimes against male predators, the narrative sexual predators are all.mainly council house & poor is exactly what they males in positions of trust in public funded bodies in want you to think. Fake news.

Again you are dismissing a males point of view to saying woman are the main victims, you aren't, children know no different than whats normal & child sexual abuse is very high with the same sex. As a adult is when most men try to report that and it's very dismissive in public funded bodies. So metoo has to be be about both genders, stop fighting allies for who want the same outcome 'accountability' by being non inclusive because most perpetraitors are men, don't cancel culture male victims include them in the fight or the toxic will always win: divide and conquer, letting the toxic control the narrative and win.

cuno · 18/02/2022 03:51

@seaniboy

You have added precisely nothing constructive and didn't respond to any of my points. Well done.

men are easily manipulated by woman who mature much quicker due to the biology of the female body

Bollocks. Can't believe you had the audacity to just make that up. Well actually, I can believe it because your sexism is glaringly obvious.

because statistics show men are more likely to be the perpetrators so why would other men investigate that

Statistics also show that 99% of sex perpetrators are men and 90% of victims are female, so why would other men investigate that just to incriminate their sex even more, surely it is in their best interests to cover up these crimes and make themselves look better. Yawn. If you're going to make up something at least make it make sense.

Male officers should not be involved with sexual crimes against male predators, the narrative sexual predators are all.mainly council house & poor is exactly what they males in positions of trust in public funded bodies in want you to think.

There are far too many sexual crimes perpetrated by men and not enough female officers this to even be remotely feasible. I've never heard the narrative sexual predators are mainly council house and poor, perhaps that's your own subconscious speaking but certainly doesn't reflect anything that we women are trying to tell you men.

Fake news.

Is Donald Trump on Mumsnet? Honestly, get a new slogan.

Again you are dismissing a males point of view to saying woman are the main victims

Facts do not dismiss male victims. Ignoring facts dismisses all victims. We can't just pretend things aren't the way they are to appease men, victims or not. I don't give a shit that you might be offended by the truth, but the truth is what it is. Misogyny is rife. Is misandry rife? Of course not!

So metoo has to be be about both genders, stop fighting allies for who want the same outcome

#MeToo is for victims of either sex.
Stop fighting allies? You're the one that's fighting us, women aren't attacking male victims, they are just sharing their experiences which you get offended by. You are clearly no ally!

'accountability' by being non inclusive because most perpetraitors are men

Most perpetrators are men though. How the fuck is that non-inclusive? It's the facts.

don't cancel culture male victims

Literally women aren't doing that, why are you fibbing?

include them in the fight or the toxic will always win: divide and conquer, letting the toxic control the narrative and win.

It's not toxic to state facts and statistics. It is toxic however to expect women to lie, hide the truth and shush for men's benefit. And someone that spouts the utter lies, bullshit, sexism, and misogyny as you have is simply not welcome in the fight because it does more damage than good. You are not at all the advocate for victims you think you are.

lemmein · 18/02/2022 03:52

men are easily manipulated by woman

Lol 🙄

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