Fucked off with Brexit

[Allison453]

I live in Northern Ireland. I have today tried to purchase 3 separate items from companies in the EU and one in the mainland.

They all state they don’t deliver to Northern Ireland because of Brexit

How has this happened where there is a border in the Irish Sea.

I can have parcels delivered to Ireland - no problem. Mainland UK - no problem

Northern Ireland - nope.

We are still part of the UK nothing has changed!!!

I’m so pissed off

I would expect additional charges maybe if the parcel has to be delivered through UK and on to us. I did not expect that years later this would still be an issue

No wonder the Northern Ireland government has collapsed! I fully support the collapse, maybe Westminster will finally take some action, although I doubt it

Fuck you Brexit. Send me my parcel

and dont forget WindyState if a seat is in the sticks with a population of 40 people and the tory gets 2 votes more then anyone else they get a seat.

then you have urban areas (the main left areas) with thousands of voters, so Labour can get more votes overall in terms of population but still miss out on a majority in the commons seats.

@DublinFemale

How can the conservatives have a 80 seat majority if they got less than half the votes.

FPTP if I understand it correctly means the first person to reach the required number of votes wins the seat. Therefore the majority had to have voted conservative to top the poll first.

Plus if I'm understanding correctly, staunch labour areas voted conservative.

How can a party with a surplus of 80seats get less than the other parties in the general election?

The Tories secured 43.6% of the votes in 2019, up from 42.3% in 2017.

Which logically transfers into a massive majority of seats.

@VelvetChairGirl

All the experts said it was a stupid idea but 50% didnt listen and decided to blame immigrants for all the troubles caused by long term tory governments.

stupid is as stupid does.

Wonder what the Brexiter/Covid-denier Venn diagram looks like...

@Mango101 I do have views about the Brexiter/British Empire had its good points Venn diagram looks like.

Use of 'Woke' too.

Must say the Will Self/Mark Francois Brexit/Racist point though to be fair not an intersection, more a wholly enclosed circle.

The Tories secured 43.6% of the votes in 2019, up from 42.3% in 2017.

Which logically transfers into a massive majority of seats.

FPTP is anything but logical. An additional 1.3% of the vote share won them an additional 5% of the total seats.

@CorrBlimeyGG

The Tories secured 43.6% of the votes in 2019, up from 42.3% in 2017.

Which logically transfers into a massive majority of seats.

FPTP is anything but logical. An additional 1.3% of the vote share won them an additional 5% of the total seats.

Totally so. FPTP - dictatorship by the majority.

We need to grow up and become a democracy...

@DublinFemale

How can the conservatives have a 80 seat majority if they got less than half the votes.

FPTP if I understand it correctly means the first person to reach the required number of votes wins the seat. Therefore the majority had to have voted conservative to top the poll first.

Plus if I'm understanding correctly, staunch labour areas voted conservative.

How can a party with a surplus of 80seats get less than the other parties in the general election?

What's most hilarious is that the British feel entitled to give the EU lectures on democracy. A county with an electoral system that is not fit for purpose and which still has hereditary peers sitting in its legislature. And politicians, not civil servants, simply appointed to Parliament by the PM without any votes from anyone (the unlamented Lord David Frost for example, a great example of an unelected bureaucrat and halfwit ).

FPTP - dictatorship by the majority.

If only - it's a minority!

Ok, just trying to get it clear in my head.

Do you a certain amount of votes a politician has to get to win a seat?

In my area the amount is say 5000 I think so the only way to win a seat is to reach 5000, excess votes are then added to the next person of preference and so on, as it goes down the list anyone at the bottom is eliminated and votes dispersed.

So if I am understanding correctly, there is no minimum limit to win, it's the person who has the highest number when all votes are counted.

??!

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/general-election-2019-marginality/

No minimum limit and no additional use for the additional votes. FPTP in tooth and claw. I don't think there was much consideration when it was designed but one perceived advantage was that it tended to give the ability to govern without coalitions.

Back in the day before reform, rotten boroughs had a handful of electorate and some whole industrial cities had none.

The tories did see advantage in equalising the size of seats and reducing the number - was it c100,000 voters? and c600 seats ?with a side effect that it might relatively advantage them against Labour due to the results of the changes but the turkeys (individual Tory MPs) weren't keen. I vaguely recall the Liberal Democrats wanted a quid pro quo for HoL reform? and the Tories balked which seemed short sighted politically as I think the electoral changes would have embedded them for the future.

So one seat per area, and the person with the highest number of votes wins, regardless of the amount of votes.

What happens in the event of a draw, two candidates get 4000 each, one seat?

Nobody is saying everyone in the UK is to blame. However, you, as a collective, are in the situation you are in now and it is reasonable to refer to the UK when talking about the mistakes, attitudes etc. It doesn't mean I, or anyone else with a bit of cop on, thinks that refers to everyone in the UK.

Ye really need to change the electoral system though. It's appalling in terms of democracy. That said, PR also has its issues. You are more likely to end up with coalitions (often good) but they can be unstable (usually bad), with a lot of partisan decisions based on getting support from very small minorities.

@DublinFemale

Ok, just trying to get it clear in my head.

Do you a certain amount of votes a politician has to get to win a seat?

In my area the amount is say 5000 I think so the only way to win a seat is to reach 5000, excess votes are then added to the next person of preference and so on, as it goes down the list anyone at the bottom is eliminated and votes dispersed.

So if I am understanding correctly, there is no minimum limit to win, it's the person who has the highest number when all votes are counted.

??!

The way Irish elections work is by Proportional Representation (PR)

The way the UK elections work is by First Past The Post (FPTP)

If the UK had PR, I seriously doubt that they would have a Conservative majority government for the foreseeable future. They would however have to get to grips with Rainbow Coalitions...and going by past coalitions, they don't seem to suit the UK population very well (it nearly wiped out the Lib Dems).

@Zilla1

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/general-election-2019-marginality/

No minimum limit and no additional use for the additional votes. FPTP in tooth and claw. I don't think there was much consideration when it was designed but one perceived advantage was that it tended to give the ability to govern without coalitions.

Back in the day before reform, rotten boroughs had a handful of electorate and some whole industrial cities had none.

The tories did see advantage in equalising the size of seats and reducing the number - was it c100,000 voters? and c600 seats ?with a side effect that it might relatively advantage them against Labour due to the results of the changes but the turkeys (individual Tory MPs) weren't keen. I vaguely recall the Liberal Democrats wanted a quid pro quo for HoL reform? and the Tories balked which seemed short sighted politically as I think the electoral changes would have embedded them for the future.

Gerrymandering was used to great effect in northern ireland. Constituencies were designing to ensure a majority unionist representation even when the population was overwhelmingly nationalist.

If the UK had PR, I seriously doubt that they would have a Conservative majority government for the foreseeable future. They would however have to get to grips with Rainbow Coalitions...and going by past coalitions, they don't seem to suit the UK population very well (it nearly wiped out the Lib Dems).

The same happens in Ireland. The smaller party in a coalition tends to lose out badly in the next election as they have had to make more compromises than the bigger party.

Nobody is saying everyone in the UK is to blame Someone was earlier in the thread, which is what people were arguing against, but it's good most don't think like that.

@MorningStarling

Perhaps the Irish Republic could join a customs union with the UK. This would resolve the border issue entirely. The limited trade between the Republic and mainland EU could be checked at the time.

Alternatively, there could just be a straightforward free trade agreement between the EU and UK, but of course that wouldn't "punish" the UK so can't happen.

@MorningStarling

Don't you anything about how the single market and customs union works? let alone what being a 3rd country means.

...and quite why should the ROI join a CU/SM with the EU and then separate itself off from the rest of the EU?

As the UK seeks ever dodgy trade deals, the checks on exports will become ever more onerous.

IF the UK wants an all encompassing FTA with the EU, then of course it can but it will then have to abide by more EU rules and regs..... over to the Brexitiers to decide what they want?

Don't you anything about how the single market and customs union works? let alone what being a 3rd country means.

Errr, she voted for brexit. If she can find Europe on a map she's in the upper echelons of the 52%

@OchonAgusOchonOh

The smaller parties are expected to be the gatekeeper, in 2011, I knew FG would shaft us but I expected Labour to reign them in. They sold their souls.

I'm expecting the GP to be relegated in next election unless something happens.

@SnowdropCrocus

Nobody is saying everyone in the UK is to blame Someone was earlier in the thread, which is what people were arguing against, but it's good most don't think like that.

Nobody actually said that as far as I can see. However, one poster did object to everyone in the UK being blamed as a collective. That is, I think, what kicked off this discussion on blame.

That said, they do say you get the government you deserve...

[quote DublinFemale]@OchonAgusOchonOh

The smaller parties are expected to be the gatekeeper, in 2011, I knew FG would shaft us but I expected Labour to reign them in. They sold their souls.

I'm expecting the GP to be relegated in next election unless something happens.

[/quote]
The GP are definitely gone.

I'm not sure Labour can ever recover from 2011. A lot of their votes have moved over to the more left wing parties. I definitely felt very let down by Labour. I'm currently struggling to figure out who vote for in the future.

It's all a consequence of the lunatic fringe worrying about so-called sovereignty and the Kippers. Brexit is a disaster and nothing the Mogg says will change that. It's main purpose was to get BJ into his present job - also a disaster. The sooner we rejoin the EU the better but don't hold your breath.

@Grantanow

It's all a consequence of the lunatic fringe worrying about so-called sovereignty and the Kippers. Brexit is a disaster and nothing the Mogg says will change that. It's main purpose was to get BJ into his present job - also a disaster. The sooner we rejoin the EU the better but don't hold your breath.

^This is the tragedy of Brexit, it was a vehicle to get power, pre Brexit a politician like BJ would have always been a slightly oddball backbencher.

If the path to power had been remain he would have had a bus with The EU saves us £350m per week, which we can spend on our NHS.

That said, they do say you get the government you deserve
The government I deserve is the one I voted for which would have cancelled brexit. Anyway, I'm out now the discussion keeps returning to insinuating it's all brits to blame regardless of how we voted.

@AlexaShutUp

It's actually astonishingly arrogant to suggest that another sovereign nation should abandon its existing trade relationships in order to solve a problem that the UK has singlehandedly created! Unbelievable!

Yeah, jaw-dropping arrogance. Brexit was going to have consequences. Don't expect other countries to fix them.