To ask you to explain non binary to me (genuine question)

[crochetmonkey74]

I have a new non binary person on my team at work (I am a manager)
They present as female-very much so in dress and grooming, they have a very feminine name too ,they have told me that they are heterosexual and live with their partner. However they want to be known as 'they' and the pronoun 'MX'
I am happily doing all this, I believe everyone should be comfortable and I will address people how they wish to be addressed.
I'm a teacher so my new member of the team is continually being misgendered by the students (due to the incongruity of appearance and pronoun) we have other non binary more androgynous looking staff who are not misgendered.
My new staff member is a nice person but they are very aware of correcting people, and have already complained (not about me)
I'm keen to do this right and not offend but also despite trying to read around the issue, I cant find much about non binary females who present in a feminine aspect.
This is not a bait thread or a stealth moan. It is a genuine question. Anyone got any experience with this?

Non-binary people are those who believe that they aren't a gender stereotype, but most other people are. They won't want to explain because the moment you ask any questions, it's clear that it doesn't really make sense.
I'd put them in the same category as someone at work who goes on all the time about how they're psychic or into astrology or anything else woo.
Just nod and be nice and treat them professionally as you would any other person, but you don't have to put time into understanding how it all works because it doesn't really make sense.

Here's a question. How do you all feel about a woman correcting someone when they are referred to as Mrs instead of Miss? Only pure attention seeking narcissists that do that yeah?

@DomesticatedZombie

*no, they complained about another member of staff

They also corrected a member of my team in front of a class but wrongly (he was talking about me when he said Miss but they assumed it was them and corrected him) so he was unhappy

and the students are just continually being corrected (not necessarily a problem) but they feel very guilty and some of our kids really worry about being seen as intlolerant or upsetting*

Look, this is just not okay behaviour. I'd actually suggest this member of staff is perhaps needing a complaint/disciplinary started. They cannot worry children, they cannot attack other staff members. It's bullying. I would suggest looking into 'vulnerable narcissism'.

You know though if they were disciplined or warned in any way about this they'd have the school up for discrimination so fast and they'd be the ones protected. It's mental

I am rather nervous as they said middle aged women in jobs above them are triggering to them and they have been a bit grumbly about various things so I am treading carefully

Did they actually say middle aged women in jobs above them are triggering to them @crochetmonkey74?

I would report them for this remark to my manager, that is not acceptable as it is a discriminatory remark, surely?

I think you need more support to deal with this, that is a very unusual remark. It all needs recording with your manager IMO.

Correcting people is not "making a scene". Oh lord.

This person was so eager to correct, that they jumped in even when they got it wrong, the staff member they "corrected" was unhappy. You can be as naive as you like about it, there are many people here who have experience of controlling behaviour.

They also are "triggered" by middle aged women in positions of power over them what's your feeling on that?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

isn’t a problem to refer to Bob as Bob and not Father Bob when Bob isn’t there. Bob isn’t there so it’s not his business if we call him Bob. We might even call him Bobby. Or Billy Bob. Or That Right Wanker Bob. Or Lovely Bob. If you want to be called Lovely Bob the way to achieve that is to be lovely. And not act like a right wanker.

Great post

@MissM2912

I am quite happy to say I am a woman and don’t feel tied to a gender stereotype. If I don’t do things that are traditionally male it is because I have no interest- not because I can’t. So many children are ending up confused and alienated by this sort of thing.

I'm the youngest of 4 and the only girl. I grew up very tomboyish and played with boys a lot, probably because of brothers' friends coming around all the time, and though I have a lot of close female friends I prefer the company of guys as friends, on the whole. I struggle with the competitiveness and mean girl/cattiness I've encountered over the years, and just walk away from women like this. So I'm not a girly girl at all.

But I am quite clearly female, my name is something beginning with S like Millican or Lancashire, I do my own DIY, go to football matches and socialise with groups of guys. (Though as I got older, brothers' friends did seem to fancy me)

If the prevailing mood had been around in the 80s I am concerned that I would have been asked if I wanted to change gender rather than just be left alone to grow up as I have.

I feel this is psychological abuse of power over the children. If she has a female nsme, presents feminine and is female, kids are going to forget or not take seriously . She should not be allowed to correct children on this and make it theit issue. Or maybe thd children should play 'her' at her own game and they all come up with different neo pronouns and lets see how she gets with remembering that. And older females are triggering. I think you have employed someone who is inevitably going to be accusing someone of bullying/discrimination in the near future.

I did start to ask , but they said they felt it was triggering to explain it but there was lots of stuff on the internet for me to find

You should start a Bingo card.

@Ereshkigalangcleg BThey also are "triggered" by middle aged women in positions of power over them confused what's your feeling on that?*

My feeling is that they are being ageist. And pathetic.

@FOJN

and the students are just continually being corrected (not necessarily a problem) but they feel very guilty and some of our kids really worry about being seen as intlolerant or upsetting

I am at a loss to understand how you can write that and still be seeking advice on how to indulge this individuals narcissism.

because it is really not as easy as saying 'get a grip' to the person!!!

I am not a pushover but this is a tricky situation - believe me, the kids are the uppermost in my mind

Their identity crisis is not the pupils responsibility to support.
If they need mental health support for that then they need to go to the appropriate source for it which is not a school where they work as a teacher.

This person is employed to teach children, not to receive validation on their own perceived gender confusion & demand that children comply with so that they feel better about themselves.

They are not to be a teacher if their name is more important than providing the education which is the sole purpose for them being there.

It's not about them.

I'd suggest they find a different job.

@PrinnyPree

Found a youtube video of non binary people explaining their experiences. Its got 1m views and lots of upvotes so probably an okay place to start.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=kVe8wpmH_lU

I think if you just use their preferred pronouns and help others use their preferred pronouns though that's all you can really do. :)

If it’s disrupting the education of the children by causing them anxiety and worry, no you shouldn’t.

Teach them to call the teachers Teacher Mary and Teacher Betty and chastise Teacher Betty every time she calls Teacher Mary ‘she’. Never tell the children off when they do. Problem solved.

I think I'd check what the policy was with my manager and be doing that. I think the teacher in question needs to let the kids in their class know how they'd like to be called – but can't start giving out detentions when someone forgets. Maybe that would fit with your existing policy? There's a limit to how much anyone can control what other people do...

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Sorry where has OP said this person makes a scene everytime someone gets it wrong.

They have implied exactly that, the person even jumped in when they were mistaken to correct another staff member.

no , definitely don't make a scene but do correct a lot

[quote WhatEvenHappened44]@babyjellyfish

I would want them to make an effort to remember out of respect for me, but provided I didn't think they were deliberately calling me "he" to upset me or prove a point, it wouldn't be reasonable of me to make a scene every time someone got it "wrong".

Sorry where has OP said this person makes a scene everytime someone gets it wrong. That's your own stereotyping talking.

Take a look at the responses of this thread...is it that hard to imagine that they have encountered vicious, nasty people that refuse to respect their pronouns leading to them have to make a complaint. Really.[/quote]
The OP said "they" called out a member of staff in front of a group of children.

That is making a scene. And it is completely unprofessional.

This person sounds beyond tedious and you'd need the patience of a Saint to deal with it.

If someone called you the complete wrong name and you corrected them that's now making a scene is it.

"Hello Emma how are you doing?" "I'm good, actually my name is Emily not Emma"

That's not even remotely comparable. The teacher IS female and presents as such. But she's upset because the children she's supposed to be teaching aren't affirming the complex 'tying herself in knots about her gender' that's happening in her own head.

A more apt comparison would be if she signed all official documents and paperwork as Emma and then went off on one because she actually wants to be known as Emily.

@WhatEvenHappened44

Here's a question. How do you all feel about a woman correcting someone when they are referred to as Mrs instead of Miss? Only pure attention seeking narcissists that do that yeah?

I correct them if I am referred to as Mrs because I've never been married and it's not my title. And then we move on.

There is nothing wrong with identifying as non binary and having certain titles etc. But the crux of it is whether this person is able to do their job properly, or whether they are bullying or manipulating others and just using the identity as a tool to wield power.

For a balanced view, OP if you watch PrinnyPree's video (not saying you shouldn't):

https://aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

@WhatEvenHappened44

Here's a question. How do you all feel about a woman correcting someone when they are referred to as Mrs instead of Miss? Only pure attention seeking narcissists that do that yeah?

No, that’s correct incorrect data. They believe they are unmarried when they are in fact married.

If referred to as Ms, there would be no need for a correction as that implies you know that you don’t know their marital status and don’t need or wish to know it.

Like calling Teacher Betty Teacher Betty. Who cares if she’s a he, a she, a they or a duck. It becomes irrelevant.

*Correcting not correct

@babyjellyfish

The OP said "they" called out a member of staff in front of a group of children.

That is making a scene. And it is completely unprofessional.

Well that's interesting because the OPs post directly above yours says

no , definitely don't make a scene but do correct a lot

So basically, just you stereotyping and showing your prejudice along with many others here