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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask you to explain non binary to me (genuine question)

584 replies

crochetmonkey74 · 15/02/2022 10:05

I have a new non binary person on my team at work (I am a manager)
They present as female-very much so in dress and grooming, they have a very feminine name too ,they have told me that they are heterosexual and live with their partner. However they want to be known as 'they' and the pronoun 'MX'
I am happily doing all this, I believe everyone should be comfortable and I will address people how they wish to be addressed.
I'm a teacher so my new member of the team is continually being misgendered by the students (due to the incongruity of appearance and pronoun) we have other non binary more androgynous looking staff who are not misgendered.
My new staff member is a nice person but they are very aware of correcting people, and have already complained (not about me)
I'm keen to do this right and not offend but also despite trying to read around the issue, I cant find much about non binary females who present in a feminine aspect.
This is not a bait thread or a stealth moan. It is a genuine question. Anyone got any experience with this?

OP posts:
RagzRebooted · 15/02/2022 10:49

@FatFilledTrottyPuss

Non binary people recognise that there are stereotypes associated with biological sex. They feel that these stereotypes don’t fit who they are as a person so they have decided that they are neither male or female instead of realising that stereotypes are rubbish and don’t define any of us unless we let them. Remember back in the olden days of yore when girls were brought up to believe we could be or do anything despite our sex? It’s the opposite of that.
Yeah, basically this. My sister is a trans man (surgery, hormones) and thinks non binary is bollocks. He isn't very popular in the trans community!
Original poster
crochetmonkey74 · 15/02/2022 10:49

@LibrariesGiveUsPower

Maybe you should get the kids to call them teacher rather than miss/mx.
This is a great idea- I had toyed with the idea of using just their surname but this is better thank you!
OP posts:
babyjellyfish · 15/02/2022 10:50

I also think non binary is a load of nonsense but what the OP is asking for is advice about how to manage this particular staff member.

AryaStarkWolf · 15/02/2022 10:50

Non binary is the biggest load of shit, it's really annoying that people are being forced to participate in the stupidity of it all.

LittleMissUnreasonable · 15/02/2022 10:51

@mogsrus Oh grow up Hmm.

People on MN are so insular and small minded sometimes, I've never met people this intolerant in the real world. Anyway, back to OPs question and she said she didn't want to start a trans bashing thread on here. Clearly the ones who just HAVE to voice their opinion also have low reading comprehension skills...

OP, it's a difficult scenario, and it does sound like they've had enough of being referred to as 'she'. I think the approach would depend on whether these are primary/secondary aged kids.

Stressedout1009 · 15/02/2022 10:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ for repeating deleted post. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

babyjellyfish · 15/02/2022 10:53

Yeah, basically this. My sister is a trans man (surgery, hormones) and thinks non binary is bollocks. He isn't very popular in the trans community!

How do you reconcile a belief that non binary is bollocks because it's based in gender stereotyoes with a belief that a female person can identify as a man? Genuine question.

Helleofabore · 15/02/2022 10:53

Placemarking as I am always interested in hearing answers to this question.

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 15/02/2022 10:53

You shouldn't coerce the children's language use.
The children are entitled to believe in gender ideology. They are also entitled to not believe it.
You wouldn't expect non Christian children to affirm a teacher's belief in God. And that belief is, arguably, less damaging than gender stereotypes writ large.

This person needs to get over themselves and put the children first. Children are not props in her little identity crisis.

Original poster
crochetmonkey74 · 15/02/2022 10:53

They don’t want to be tied down to a gender, is how I read it. As they’ve mentioned past trauma, there could also be something that’s happened to them that has made them reject the idea of being a woman

Yes, I am rather nervous as they said middle aged women in jobs above them are triggering to them and they have been a bit grumbly about various things so I am treading carefully

OP posts:
Couchbettato · 15/02/2022 10:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

BiggerBoat1 · 15/02/2022 10:54

Just use the pronouns they have asked you to use. Its not a big deal for you, but it might be for them.
Non binary just means that they don't identify fully with either gender and are therefore more comfortable not being labelled as either.

babyjellyfish · 15/02/2022 10:55

@crochetmonkey74

They don’t want to be tied down to a gender, is how I read it. As they’ve mentioned past trauma, there could also be something that’s happened to them that has made them reject the idea of being a woman

Yes, I am rather nervous as they said middle aged women in jobs above them are triggering to them and they have been a bit grumbly about various things so I am treading carefully

Oh good grief.

Good luck OP, you're going to need it.

Are middle aged men in jobs above them triggering, or just middle aged women?

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 15/02/2022 10:55

@babyjellyfish

I also think non binary is a load of nonsense but what the OP is asking for is advice about how to manage this particular staff member.
Well capability because they are not meeting the teaching standards regarding tolerance and respecting pupils for a start.
Original poster
crochetmonkey74 · 15/02/2022 10:55

@babyjellyfish

OP, I think I would say that you understand that they wish to be referred to using gender neutral pronouns and the title Mx, and that you are happy to respect that.

I would then ask what they would like you to actually do about other people forgetting or not understanding that they (your colleague) wants to be referred to in this way.

You need to understand what they actually want you to do in order to figure out whether it is (a) within your power, and (b) reasonable.

Definitely agree to all this
OP posts:
Stressedout1009 · 15/02/2022 10:55

This person needs to get over themselves and put the children first. Children are not props in her little identity crisis.

I would be upset if my dc are pulled up on this nonsense.

babyjellyfish · 15/02/2022 10:55

@BiggerBoat1

Just use the pronouns they have asked you to use. Its not a big deal for you, but it might be for them. Non binary just means that they don't identify fully with either gender and are therefore more comfortable not being labelled as either.
The OP is already doing this but they still aren't happy!
BiggerBoat1 · 15/02/2022 10:56

@WorriedMumsDontSleep

You shouldn't coerce the children's language use. The children are entitled to believe in gender ideology. They are also entitled to not believe it. You wouldn't expect non Christian children to affirm a teacher's belief in God. And that belief is, arguably, less damaging than gender stereotypes writ large.

This person needs to get over themselves and put the children first. Children are not props in her little identity crisis.

Wow. What an unkind post.

Surely it is a good thing to teach children to respect other people and treat them as they wish to be treated? It is not as if this teacher's choice affects anyone else.

MintyGreenDream · 15/02/2022 10:56

Courtney Stodden was in the press doing similar.I just don't get it

x2boys · 15/02/2022 10:56

Kids of all ages have had an awful two years of education and exams being disrupted due to the pandemic,and now we are nearing the tail end of it ,the last thing they need is to worry about what pronoun,s to use.
This teacher sounds incredibly self centred .

Couchbettato · 15/02/2022 10:57

As for advice, I don't know.

I take the, I don't negotiate with terrorists attitude to this.

I will respect how they want to be addressed but I refuse to walk on eggshells in case it bruises their delicate ego when they can't even provide a definite answer as to why it's so important to them.

lifeturnsonadime · 15/02/2022 10:58

I'm very very uncomfortable that a member of the teaching profession is trying to coerce children in complying with language that doesn't reflect reality.

How can it ever be appropriate to teach children to say things that their eyes tell them is not true.

How can it ever be appropriate to punish them if they don't tell lies?

Original poster
crochetmonkey74 · 15/02/2022 10:58

If you dare put a foot wrong, you’ll find out

This is what is making me nervous - I consider myself a very liberal person- I don't judge , i try to do what is asked of me to make people feel supported and comfortable but I feel nervous of doing the wrong thing

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2022 10:58

is not as if this teacher's choice affects anyone else.

But it clearly does, because this person is complaining when people don't use special language Confused

AryaStarkWolf · 15/02/2022 10:59

@FatFilledTrottyPuss

Non binary people recognise that there are stereotypes associated with biological sex. They feel that these stereotypes don’t fit who they are as a person so they have decided that they are neither male or female instead of realising that stereotypes are rubbish and don’t define any of us unless we let them. Remember back in the olden days of yore when girls were brought up to believe we could be or do anything despite our sex? It’s the opposite of that.
Exactly and this is why it pisses me off so much. As a teen of the 90's and actually fighting to break those fucking boxes here we are with this regressive ideology undoing all that work we and women before us fought so hard for.
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