Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask you to explain non binary to me (genuine question)

584 replies

crochetmonkey74 · 15/02/2022 10:05

I have a new non binary person on my team at work (I am a manager)
They present as female-very much so in dress and grooming, they have a very feminine name too ,they have told me that they are heterosexual and live with their partner. However they want to be known as 'they' and the pronoun 'MX'
I am happily doing all this, I believe everyone should be comfortable and I will address people how they wish to be addressed.
I'm a teacher so my new member of the team is continually being misgendered by the students (due to the incongruity of appearance and pronoun) we have other non binary more androgynous looking staff who are not misgendered.
My new staff member is a nice person but they are very aware of correcting people, and have already complained (not about me)
I'm keen to do this right and not offend but also despite trying to read around the issue, I cant find much about non binary females who present in a feminine aspect.
This is not a bait thread or a stealth moan. It is a genuine question. Anyone got any experience with this?

OP posts:
FOJN · 15/02/2022 11:19

Here's a list of non binary gender identities, it's exhausting but I doubt it's exhaustive! Perhaps you could ask them to be more specific about their non binary identity so you can do the research required. Hopefully the question won't be triggering.

nonbinary.miraheze.org/wiki/List_of_nonbinary_identities

TheKeatingFive · 15/02/2022 11:20

I think it just means they feel neutral, neither male or female. How they dress may be because they feel a split between their body and their mind/soul? So presenting the body in a feminine way is fine to them, it's their mind/soul/sense of self that feels non-binary.

And we think it's reasonable to ask teenagers to absorb and act on all of that? 😵‍💫

DomesticatedZombie · 15/02/2022 11:20

*no, they complained about another member of staff

They also corrected a member of my team in front of a class but wrongly (he was talking about me when he said Miss but they assumed it was them and corrected him) so he was unhappy

and the students are just continually being corrected (not necessarily a problem) but they feel very guilty and some of our kids really worry about being seen as intlolerant or upsetting*

Look, this is just not okay behaviour. I'd actually suggest this member of staff is perhaps needing a complaint/disciplinary started. They cannot worry children, they cannot attack other staff members. It's bullying. I would suggest looking into 'vulnerable narcissism'.

Whitney168 · 15/02/2022 11:20

@Ereshkigalangcleg

These people wouldn't really like it if all gender pronouns/greetings were removed. They might at first, but it would soon dawn on them that no one would know that they were different to the common herd of "binary" people.
Isn't that the truth ... ?!
Whatwouldscullydo · 15/02/2022 11:21

Tbh it's sounds a lost cause. They need to either be given a firm boundary in that no one else is obligated to validate their self devalued identity most people don't even believe or leave.

Its their identity no one else's and the kids and staff have precisely zero obligation to participate

hangrylady · 15/02/2022 11:21

@Hollyhead

Everyone is non binary because gender norms are mad up social constructs.
I'm not. HTH
Whatwouldscullydo · 15/02/2022 11:21

Self declared

MingeofDeath · 15/02/2022 11:23

Non binary = attention seeking bullshit

WhatEvenHappened44 · 15/02/2022 11:23

The hatred on this post is disgusting, but no surprise coming from Mumsnet.

OP, if you're a woman, imagine everyone in this world referring to you as he or him and how much that would drain you and make you feel the need to correct them. Because if you are referenced as a "he" you just inherently know that is not right and will feel annoyed everyone is calling you by something you're not. That's how non binary people who go by "they" feel when being referred to as she or him.

hangrylady · 15/02/2022 11:23

They sound like an attention seeker, making an issue out of nothing and in honesty I wouldn't be too delighted if they were my kids teacher

SpiderVersed · 15/02/2022 11:24

@Lostinafjord

I think it just means they feel neutral, neither male or female. How they dress may be because they feel a split between their body and their mind/soul? So presenting the body in a feminine way is fine to them, it's their mind/soul/sense of self that feels non-binary.
There is no split between body and mind/soul/identity. We are our bodies; our bodies are us. One entity.
User1isnotavailable · 15/02/2022 11:24

@Helleofabore

As they’ve mentioned past trauma, there could also be something that’s happened to them that has made them reject the idea of being a woman.

OP, have they mentioned past trauma?

Or is being 'triggered' by having to talk about their identity and by 'middle aged women working above them' being read as past trauma?

I must admit surprise to them admitting to being ageist and sexist.

Ah but ageist and sexist to woman at least is perfectly acceptable Hmm
Cheeeseeeee773737 · 15/02/2022 11:24

Everybody and nobody are non-binary.
They think they're cool because they don't fit the female or male stereotype but here is a secret the whole world should know.... nobody does! Grin

Lottapianos · 15/02/2022 11:25

'Yes, I am rather nervous as they said middle aged women in jobs above them are triggering to them and they have been a bit grumbly about various things so I am treading carefully'

The absolute bloody nerve of this person. They seem to expect endless pandering no matter what. Imagine this being tolerated in other examples - 'having to work on this project with my black male colleague is triggering to me', 'having a Jewish manager is ruining my mental health'. No one would dare come out with offensive nonsense like that or if they did, it would be shut down pretty damn daft. Say what you like about women though, and middle aged women, well knock yourself out 😡I feel for you OP having to deal with this nonsense

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 15/02/2022 11:25

students are just continually being corrected (not necessarily a problem) but they feel very guilty and some of our kids really worry about being seen as intlolerant or upsetting

Have you looked at the teaching standards I posted yet. Can you see the problem now?

Justilou1 · 15/02/2022 11:25

Being “triggered” often means “I don’t want to talk about it.”

Antsgomarching · 15/02/2022 11:26

Does she understand that people are referring to her biological sex rather than her internal feelings about her gender identity. I don’t have one of those (gender identity that is) so no idea if it causes a lot of upset but this sounds really annoying. I would be quite wary about this. I would also keep documentation about your convos and try to keep them in a formal setting. Perhaps send her quick email saying “as per out conversation…” I probably sound paranoid but she sounds fragile and likely to feel people are bullying her etc if they don’t behave in the way she wants.

You have the patience of a saint and are clearly trying your best to be accommodating of her. I would go with PP suggestion of coaching questions and keep her at arms length.

Lottapianos · 15/02/2022 11:26

Fast, not daft!

mjf981 · 15/02/2022 11:27

Attention seeking narcissist. You have my sympathy OP. I certainly wouldn't be walking on eggshells around them.

It annoys me that the things we should be investing time and energy into - saving the planet, getting plastic out of our oceans, stopping the ruination of the amazon - are side issues in modern society. Instead, we are all discussing him/her/they and worried we are going to be offending someone by using the wrong bloody pronoun!! The world has gone absolutely mad.

CecilyP · 15/02/2022 11:28

Surely it is a good thing to teach children to respect other people and treat them as they wish to be treated? It is not as if this teacher's choice affects anyone else.

Sorry, but affecting everyone else is exactly what it is doing! It's certainly affecting OP and creating a lot of extra work and anxiety for her!

User1isnotavailable · 15/02/2022 11:28

[quote FOJN]Here's a list of non binary gender identities, it's exhausting but I doubt it's exhaustive! Perhaps you could ask them to be more specific about their non binary identity so you can do the research required. Hopefully the question won't be triggering.

nonbinary.miraheze.org/wiki/List_of_nonbinary_identities[/quote]
Wow, so many of them seem so similar. But it feels like the need to create a 'new' word for a 'new' gender is done to feel a bit different to the other ones already used..... I feel for children at school if they have to navigate ensuring they don't upset someone who picks one of these. Perhaps we should all say oi and you there in future

lucillelarusso · 15/02/2022 11:29

Middle aged women in power trigger them? WTF? Tell them that misogyny triggers you and they need to STFU

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/02/2022 11:30

They said they know that middle aged women in power trigger them and they are working on it in therapy

They are working on their ageism and internalised misogyny then? Excellent!

CecilyP · 15/02/2022 11:30

Would they rather the kids said oi!? Seems a bit rude!!

'You' is a nice gender neutral, and standard English, pronoun that could be used.

Helleofabore · 15/02/2022 11:30

Because if you are referenced as a "he" you just inherently know that is not right and will feel annoyed everyone is calling you by something you're not.

If you are a person who feels annoyed being called a 'he' in error, you probably do need to work out why this annoys you. Having been in that situation, it is actually possible to not be annoyed with it.