To ask you to explain non binary to me (genuine question)

[crochetmonkey74]

I have a new non binary person on my team at work (I am a manager)
They present as female-very much so in dress and grooming, they have a very feminine name too ,they have told me that they are heterosexual and live with their partner. However they want to be known as 'they' and the pronoun 'MX'
I am happily doing all this, I believe everyone should be comfortable and I will address people how they wish to be addressed.
I'm a teacher so my new member of the team is continually being misgendered by the students (due to the incongruity of appearance and pronoun) we have other non binary more androgynous looking staff who are not misgendered.
My new staff member is a nice person but they are very aware of correcting people, and have already complained (not about me)
I'm keen to do this right and not offend but also despite trying to read around the issue, I cant find much about non binary females who present in a feminine aspect.
This is not a bait thread or a stealth moan. It is a genuine question. Anyone got any experience with this?

He'd have his own reasons for his appearance and calling himself male. It's just the same in this case.

It's not the same at all. In your example the children would be factually wrong in calling him female. In the OP's example, they're factually right to do so.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I did start to ask , but they said they felt it was triggering to explain it

What a very unexpected response. sarcasm

The ultimate shut down and get out clause.

It just won't do as an answer if they want people to address them the way they want.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

The trouble is, the word "woman" used to mean "biologically female people", and now it means something else we no longer have a word for "biologically female people".

Except most people stubbornly go on using the word the way it was always used.

Well, yes.

But we now have a problem, namely that not everyone is using the word in the same way, which hinders communication.

If I want to provide a single sex service for women, I now either run the risk of male people believing this includes them, or I have to explicitly state "this service is only for biological women and not trans women", which exposes me to the risk of being accused of transphobia or even getting into legal difficulties.

Sorry if this has been asked, I didn't read the whole thread (360 replies!), but does your colleague want people to use MX as a pronoun, as stated in the original post, or as an honorific, like Mr, Mrs, Ms?

I hope my sons stay boys/men. I'm not buying into this bollocks of Mx and the like 🤦🏼‍♀️ How does one even pronounce that??!

@Lostinafjord

I think it just means they feel neutral, neither male or female. How they dress may be because they feel a split between their body and their mind/soul? So presenting the body in a feminine way is fine to them, it's their mind/soul/sense of self that feels non-binary.

As do most of us, no?

There have been lots of threads on here of people trying to "feel" female and not succeeding.

This person isn't trans.

This person is trans. Trans covers a wide range of identities, from transsexuals who can pass as the opposite sex and have a gender recognition certificate to people who "change gender" multiple times a day. Through people who say they don't have any gender identity at all, which you would think would cover gender critical feminists, but no, we are told we have to be "cis".

If kids get it wrong, remind them
Why? Maybe they don't believe in your religion. Stop forcing them to.

But we now have a problem, namely that not everyone is using the word in the same way, which hinders communication.

Yes, exactly. The waters are very muddy indeed, and it benefits trans activists and it doesn't benefit women and girls.

If I only want to be labelled an adult human of the female biological sex then I am shit out of luck because we do not have a word for that in the English language

Apparently we need words like cisgender and agender and non-binary, and we need the word "women" to mean "most adult humans of the female biological sex except the ones who identify as men or non-binary, plus some adult humans of the male biological sex who identify as women" (despite the fact that this is both a circular definition and a non existent group of people with nothing in common which we don't actually need a word for), but there is absolutely no need for a word which means "adult humans of the female biological sex"

If you think there is a need for such a word, you are guilty of biological essentialism and reducing women to their reproductive role, which is regressive

This is such a brilliant critique of the mangled, meaningless language of this incoherent movement!
Thank you!

Like being a vegan

Not at all. Vegans only tell people that they are vegan so they're not fed meat. Their ideology is not inherently harmful to anyone else or imposes on anyone else. A vegan eating vegan food effects exactly one person. That vegan. Vegans need the word vegan to indicate their dietary requirements as do halal, celiacs.etc. Vegans don't call non vegans names and expect non vegans to validate their world view, they only ask you respect theirs by not giving them meat.

Stop lumping vegans in with this nonsense.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

But we now have a problem, namely that not everyone is using the word in the same way, which hinders communication.

Yes, exactly. The waters are very muddy indeed, and it benefits trans activists and it doesn't benefit women and girls.

It is really confusing apparently in Scotland there is a suggestion that there should be women only train carriages to combat VAWG. This is very confusing because also in Scotland any man who says he is a woman must be believed.

So these single sex carriages will not be single sex at all. They will before women and any male who claims they are a woman.

Excuse typo they will 'be for' not 'before'

This person isn't trans

But the whole point of this movement is that there ARE no definitions or gatekeeping.

Everyone is whatever they say they are. And everyone around them must comply, not question.
She's trans if she says she is. You have no choice but to agree and enable.

Another word understood differently by people:

Trans/transgender is used interchangeably and confusingly by activists as an umbrella term and also to specifically represent people who identify as the opposite sex.

It does not require:

Surgery
Hormones
Gender recognition certificate
Presenting as the opposite sex
Changing pronouns

@Ereshkigalangcleg

This person isn't trans.

This person is trans. Trans covers a wide range of identities, from transsexuals who can pass as the opposite sex and have a gender recognition certificate to people who "change gender" multiple times a day. Through people who say they don't have any gender identity at all, which you would think would cover gender critical feminists, but no, we are told we have to be "cis".

I think they have to label everyone because if it was clear that a gender identity is something only a few people actually have, it would also be clear that there is no argument for organising society on the basis of it.

If I say, "I share neither a biological sex nor a gender identity with trans women so why should this identity that only they have be a reason for us to compete in the same sporting category?" there is no good response to that.

So they have to insist that we share this identity whether we like it or not.

babyjellyfish and Ereshkigalangcleg

Thank you for explaining it further

Sidestepping the politics of non-binary I think you need to be really careful with this colleague. They are misunderstanding the teacher pupil dynamic, being highly critical of colleagues and also firing warning shots to their superiors.

@crochetmonkey74

It is worth asking yourself though if you feel your first duty is to the students in your care, or your colleagues?

It is UNEQUIVOCALLY my students

I’m very glad to hear you confirm that, as I thought you would.

In that case, you need to protect your students from the narcissistic control mechanisms being used by this teacher.

Many young people have been thoroughly brainwashed by the gender identity ideologists, I was speaking to just one such young woman very recently - an educated, intelligent young woman who was parroting the most asinine and absurd “arguments” beloved of Twitter TRAs, because that’s what she’d been taught at her very well respected place of Higher Education.

Your new colleague probably falls into this camp too, and in some respects is not to be blamed for having fallen for this ideology, because it is being indoctrinated into young people everywhere. No doubt the educational establishment you work in has also been subject to the usual “training” sessions and you, as I say, genuinely think you’re doing the right thing here.

But this will be having a negative impact on your students, and that has to be the point where you step in and question it (as indeed you have done by starting this thread, so kudos for that) and stop enabling it.

Your problem is not "non-binary" gender. Your problem is a subordinate with mental health issues who is using gender to make themselves a victim. They are a cheeky manipulator - they even told you straight out they had a problem with you being their boss, wrapped up all cutesy in therapy speak. Good that you've alerted your own manager, but be prepared for more.

Do walk on eggshells around your colleague. Make sure you are 100% correct and professional at all times. Avoid debate about gender. And be prepared to protect your colleagues and the students from bullying. If the students are feeling guilty that's a sign something is wrong because a simple correction for an accidental slip should not make anyone feel guilty or in the wrong, no matter how often it's repeated.

You may look similar to your colleague but you probably do not have similar outlooks at all. Your colleague may be mirroring.

@crochetmonkey74

I have a new non binary person on my team at work (I am a manager) They present as female-very much so in dress and grooming, they have a very feminine name too ,they have told me that they are heterosexual and live with their partner. However they want to be known as 'they' and the pronoun 'MX' I am happily doing all this, I believe everyone should be comfortable and I will address people how they wish to be addressed. I'm a teacher so my new member of the team is continually being misgendered by the students (due to the incongruity of appearance and pronoun) we have other non binary more androgynous looking staff who are not misgendered. My new staff member is a nice person but they are very aware of correcting people, and have already complained (not about me) I'm keen to do this right and not offend but also despite trying to read around the issue, I cant find much about non binary females who present in a feminine aspect. This is not a bait thread or a stealth moan. It is a genuine question. Anyone got any experience with this?

Calling yourself Non binary is a threat it's a way of gaining the upper hand and control of others, including their speech, it's yet another rung on the professional victim ladder .

I feel entirely baffled and I am an intelligent, liberal woman who should understand it

Oh gawd, we’ve all been there!

The problem is, this ideology is not rooted in reason, rationality, or facts.

It’s a swampy bog built on cognitive dissonance and denial of social, political and material reality, and it shifts to accommodate anything at all that those making the ideology up say is so. Even when something may be at direct odds with something else that forms part of the ideology. There is no coherence except “if I say it’s so, it is so”.

We as women aren’t meant to understand it. We’re just meant to obey. Unquestioningly.

Now where have you heard that before?

OP if you want to arm your younger Harry Potter loving colleague with some rebuttals about JKR, step on over to Feminism. We have lots on there.

twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1492925757898702848

Here's an adult calling themself 'trans kid' when upset by mispronouning.

They is very upset by the mistakes. I don't really know how these people are actually able to function.

Apologies for the mangled grammar, I am trying to correctly pronoun, and guessing it's 'they'.

@MoltenLasagne

Sidestepping the politics of non-binary I think you need to be really careful with this colleague. They are misunderstanding the teacher pupil dynamic, being highly critical of colleagues and also firing warning shots to their superiors.

Yes I agree with this. Be very careful to do everything according to procedures, don't give her anyway she can make a complaint about her treatment. Keep records of everything and keep line manager updated with any problems.