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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask you to explain non binary to me (genuine question)

584 replies

crochetmonkey74 · 15/02/2022 10:05

I have a new non binary person on my team at work (I am a manager)
They present as female-very much so in dress and grooming, they have a very feminine name too ,they have told me that they are heterosexual and live with their partner. However they want to be known as 'they' and the pronoun 'MX'
I am happily doing all this, I believe everyone should be comfortable and I will address people how they wish to be addressed.
I'm a teacher so my new member of the team is continually being misgendered by the students (due to the incongruity of appearance and pronoun) we have other non binary more androgynous looking staff who are not misgendered.
My new staff member is a nice person but they are very aware of correcting people, and have already complained (not about me)
I'm keen to do this right and not offend but also despite trying to read around the issue, I cant find much about non binary females who present in a feminine aspect.
This is not a bait thread or a stealth moan. It is a genuine question. Anyone got any experience with this?

OP posts:
viques · 15/02/2022 12:12

If you present in a way that means that people make assumptions about how you want to be addressed then it is up to you to find a way to deal with it. It is not any one else’s responsibility to second guess you or tiptoe around your self imposed sensitivity.

It’s a shame that we aren’t allowed to tell people this without them retreating behind the “ it’s so triggering” transphobia wall.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2022 12:12

who was worried about her Harry Potter poster as it had been commented on

Commented on by this non binary person?

TheKeatingFive · 15/02/2022 12:12

It feels to me like the staff member is setting up the scenario that they can't cope with being managed by middle aged "cis" women, unsafe, hostile etc etc.

It's hard to see this any other way alright

babyjellyfish · 15/02/2022 12:12

[quote WhatEvenHappened44]@babyjellyfish

The OP said "they" called out a member of staff in front of a group of children.

That is making a scene. And it is completely unprofessional.

Well that's interesting because the OPs post directly above yours says

no , definitely don't make a scene but do correct a lot

So basically, just you stereotyping and showing your prejudice along with many others here[/quote]
I would describe that as making a scene.

In any normal times, in any normal profession, behaving like that would be a justification for the line manager to tell the person concerned in no uncertain terms that their behaviour was unprofessional and should not be repeated.

But unfortunately at the moment, doing so is likely to be perceived as "transphobia", so the OP needs to tread carefully.

Whatwouldscullydo · 15/02/2022 12:14

Well there you are then. The teachers are walking on egg shells. As are the students. It's not just names and titles its posters etc.

What besides stress is this person actually bringing to the table. There's only one person responsible for the health and well being of someone. And that's the person. Carers get paid. Family members at least consent to taking care of someone. These kids haven't even been asked. They are there to learn not play carer

BlondeDogLady · 15/02/2022 12:14

Or, maybe you could counter with the fact that you identify as multi binary, and that every day of the week you shall be known by a different pronoun, and that no two weeks shall be the same. You don't expect everyone to remember the correct daily pronoun, so you will be sure to wear colour coded socks to assist with sign posting. Except on In Service Days.

Lottapianos · 15/02/2022 12:15

'Jesus. Being "non-binary" is not a protected characteristic so I wouldn't be pandering to ANY of this nonsense. You are not responsible for their feelings about being "misgendered" by others.'

Very good point. I liked the coaching questions suggestion upthread about batting as much of this possible back to her, with questions like 'how do you think you could respond when someone says that to you?'

jeaux90 · 15/02/2022 12:16

It's regressive nonsense.

I'm a tech person, I don't wear dresses or like girly stuff. I'm still female.

It feels like gaslighting to me when someone says they aren't a she and they very bloody clearly are.

Clearly you can't go round misgendering her at work but you are also allowed to have gender critical views in law and say you don't believe in gender identity. Just like we are allowed not to believe in religion.

IntermittentParps · 15/02/2022 12:16

@DomesticatedZombie

*no, they complained about another member of staff

They also corrected a member of my team in front of a class but wrongly (he was talking about me when he said Miss but they assumed it was them and corrected him) so he was unhappy

and the students are just continually being corrected (not necessarily a problem) but they feel very guilty and some of our kids really worry about being seen as intlolerant or upsetting*

Look, this is just not okay behaviour. I'd actually suggest this member of staff is perhaps needing a complaint/disciplinary started. They cannot worry children, they cannot attack other staff members. It's bullying. I would suggest looking into 'vulnerable narcissism'.

I agree with this. The pupils should be top priority and a teacher cannot be allowed to make them feel constantly guilty and worried.
Original poster
crochetmonkey74 · 15/02/2022 12:16

@labyrinthlaziness

Yes, that is a direct quote and I have already logged with my line manager

What did your line manager say to that @crochetmonkey74? I would be very uncomfortable if someone said they were 'triggered' by a person with x characteristic - any characteristic - holding a specific position.

You could make a complaint about that comment tbh, it is very far out of line.

He said to keep a note of it and we will monitor
OP posts:
Original poster
crochetmonkey74 · 15/02/2022 12:17

@Ereshkigalangcleg

who was worried about her Harry Potter poster as it had been commented on

Commented on by this non binary person?

Yes
OP posts:
Crimesean · 15/02/2022 12:17

@Ereshkigalangcleg

These people wouldn't really like it if all gender pronouns/greetings were removed. They might at first, but it would soon dawn on them that no one would know that they were different to the common herd of "binary" people.
Ha, I know a non-binary person who was absolutely furious when they visited Hungary (we are there a lot as DH is Hungarian) and realised they couldn't make an issue about their pronouns because there's only one in Hungarian and it's gender-neutral. They spent a really long time trying to work out how to translate non-binary without referring to pronouns. It was very funny watching them implode!
Smallkeys · 15/02/2022 12:18

To be fair it does sound like they have some other mental health issues going on if they are working stuff out with a therapist. I foresee an official complaint going in before long or a break from work. Good luck

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2022 12:19

who was worried about her Harry Potter poster as it had been commented on

Commented on by this non binary person?

Yes

Confused not making a scene about things at all then

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2022 12:20

Crimesean Grin I think that applies to many languages, Indonesian is one

Thatsplentyjack · 15/02/2022 12:20

Yes, it's hard to understand something that's been completely made up and makes no logical sense.

ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 15/02/2022 12:20

@crochetmonkey74 - What is the problem with a poster of Harry Potter?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2022 12:21

I foresee an official complaint going in before long or a break from work.

I agree.

SirVixofVixHall · 15/02/2022 12:21

It is all such utter nonsense. Everyone is “non binary” , none of us “identify” only with the stereotypes of our sex. Upholding non binary means upholding regressive sex stereotypes, something women have fought against for generations.
Seems essentially to have become a way for the terminally dull with no capacity for critical thought, to try and seem more interesting.

babyjellyfish · 15/02/2022 12:21

@fridgepants

Think of it this way:

I have a name that is commonly shortened. I don't go by the shortened version. Nevertheless, sometimes people just call me 'Chris' instead of 'Christine' (as an example), and I have the choice of them either calling me something that isn't my name - isn't me - or awkwardly try and correct them which makes me feel rude. If they call me 'Chris' anyway, chances are I won't hear and answer them, because, again, that's not my name. This happens when I introduce myself as 'Christine', and it happens when people email me for the first time even though my email address has my full name on it, and it's tedious and irksome.

If someone says to me 'Hi, I'm Christine', I will never call them 'Chris' unless they tell me that is their name.

Using 'Mx' is exactly the same for me.

I mean, yeah, sort of.

Although it's more analogous to a situation where female people are all called Laura and male people are all called Bob and someone who looks obviously female says they want to be known as Blob.

Not necessarily a big deal, but it takes more brain energy to remember it and sometimes people are going to get it wrong through no fault of their own.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2022 12:22

What is the problem with a poster of Harry Potter?

I imagine the non binary person doesn't approve of JK Rowling's views about sex and gender.

SirVixofVixHall · 15/02/2022 12:22

Students being corrected on this is gaslighting.

babyjellyfish · 15/02/2022 12:24

I am starting to think this- and it is destabilizing for my team too. We have quite a young meek female teacher on the team who was worried about her Harry Potter poster as it had been commented on- I told her she could keep it up - but it makes me second guess everything! I am feeling a bit intimidated and like I need to walk on eggshells

Why is she worried about her Harry Potter poster? Who commented on it and what did they say?

Whitney168 · 15/02/2022 12:24

Wow, so many of them seem so similar. But it feels like the need to create a 'new' word for a 'new' gender is done to feel a bit different to the other ones already used.....

Yes - it's so important to be different to all the other different people, this list could go expand for some time yet.

@crochetmonkey74, what on earth was the issue with a Harry Potter poster?

wishtotravel · 15/02/2022 12:25

@Lostinafjord

I think it just means they feel neutral, neither male or female. How they dress may be because they feel a split between their body and their mind/soul? So presenting the body in a feminine way is fine to them, it's their mind/soul/sense of self that feels non-binary.
I would like to clarify something, but I 'm finding it really difficult to find t he words because I keep wanting to say the world's gone mad, but I know it's not productive. What do people mean about when they talk about feeling their mind or soul is neither make nor female? I literally can't understand why anyone would ask themselves that question. How would you even answer something like that? Since when did people have a template to what constitutes a female soul? Is everything separate now? Do young people contemplate if every part of them is male or female/ and mix and match?
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