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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Dads joining coffee group

499 replies

CaptainMyCaptainn · 14/02/2022 14:25

So I strongly suspect I’m being UR and probably need a resounding yes to give me a head wobble.

A weekly coffee / lunch meet up in a pub for mums started a few months ago. It was advertised as mums and mums to be and it’s been a great space to meet other mums and talk about everything from boobs and PND to holidays.

Someone recently asked if there’s a similar group for dads and then all of a sudden, dads were being added to the WhatsApp group and have started to come. Today, one came on his own as he left sleeping baby at home with mum. I personally think it changes the dynamic to have men but I think I’m being UR here. Just hoping that whilst I’m UR, it’s understandable.

Just to add, there are dads who come to other baby groups I go to and it’s completely ok, and I happily chat to them. But it’s this particular one where it’s more of a support group that feels uncomfortable.

OP posts:
FortunateOne · 14/02/2022 18:34

Hi, just to say that I think in this group and it says it's a coffee drop-in for mums, dads and mums-to-be? I like all the chat we have and also think it's good to be inclusive. Have you tried talking to the organisers about it? Maybe there could be a separate women's only chat?

FortunateOne · 14/02/2022 18:35

Meant to say - I think I'm in this group!

BigFatLiar · 14/02/2022 18:37

@Peas252

Unfortunately its often seen as sexist to bar women but not to bar men. He needed to find other ways to advertise his group

So, men can't join a group with women, and they can't advertise a men's only group in case they offend women, yet virtually every poster on here is asking why men don't setup their own groups?

HmmHmm

As a previous poster has reported this is the case. When trying to advertise a mens/dads group they were told it was sexist and had their posts removed.
Cherrysoup · 14/02/2022 18:40

Given a few husbands are now in the group, suggest that they set up their own group now. I would be quite clear that the original group stays as it was-mothers.

jennytogether · 14/02/2022 18:43

My partner had a really lonely time looking after our daughter as a baby. All the groups he went to he found very clique. Many posters are talking about the things men wouldn’t be able to relate to, but what about the things that everyone could share, like looking after a baby… I hear that he could have organised his own male group but we’re in a small town and the sad thing is that there don’t seem to be many men taking shared parental leave. Or maybe there are but they aren’t meeting other men because the groups are a bit hostile so they stay at home.

I also think that the comments about men and their misogyny (golf clubs etc) are probably better directed at the ones who aren’t already sharing leave to look after their children.

My partner also witnessed a lot more detail of my births than I did. Maybe the men would have contributing insight…

Original poster
CaptainMyCaptainn · 14/02/2022 18:43

@FortunateOne

Hi, just to say that I think in this group and it says it's a coffee drop-in for mums, dads and mums-to-be? I like all the chat we have and also think it's good to be inclusive. Have you tried talking to the organisers about it? Maybe there could be a separate women's only chat?
In SE London? Small world!

It was mums and mums to be at first, as I joined it very early when it was first set up. It then changed to dads for a while when the initial man was added. After he never participated it was still mums and mums to be but now it’s dads, again, after the new influx of men.

OP posts:
Holskey · 14/02/2022 18:44

So, men can't join a group with women, and they can't advertise a men's only group in case they offend women, yet virtually every poster on here is asking why men don't setup their own groups?

I think they can set up their own group. There are ridiculous people all over the world and it seems some of them conspired to stop men creating a dads group in one instance reported by a PP (and it's probably happened elsewhere too). But I'm not convinced this is a common problem and I doubt many women are against it in general.

Canaloha · 14/02/2022 18:45

I don't think any woman would be offended by a man only group, and i can't imagine many would want to join and change the dynamics just because they wanted to.

DysmalRadius · 14/02/2022 18:45

if we as a society embrace the message that men are expected to parent from day 1 then we can’t also exclude men from parenting groups unless there is a reason - eg it’s a support/women’s issues group

There is a reason - this group was set up for 'mums and mums to be'.

There are hundreds of groups that dads can attend, thousands of places that welcome parents equally, and plenty of opportunities for dads to set up their own dads only or mixed sex groups that are explicitly for parents of either sex. I know a few single dads and SAHDs and I have never known them to be excluded from school pickups or parties - they are welcome to come and if they don't, it's certainly not because they aren't allowed.

The OP is asking about a group that was for new mums and mums to be, and I don't think that society needs to shift to include men in these groups in order to enable them to participate in raising their children.

If anything, the idea that things need to be handed to dads on a plate is doing them a disservice - men are just as capable of making friends and getting involved as women (look at the variety of kids', and indeed adults', sporting activities that are organised and run largely by men). If men can manage to organise a full season of sporting fixtures for their kids' teams, then they can find something to do with their kids that's not a group for mums.

Skeam · 14/02/2022 18:51

@MindyStClaire

Well, what kind of group is it? I can see that women only groups would be useful where things like breastfeeding, birth injuries etc are considered, even damage to careers due to having children.

But if it's just for parenting small children then I think the more men involved the better. I know I do lots of chatting (and venting!) about small children than DH does and I think he really misses out by not having that.

Women will never have equality until men take on half of the parenting burden. If women need support with that, then so will they.

Yes, this. It depends on whether this was consciously intended and advertised as a women-only support group, or whether it was lazy assumptions about which parent was going to be looking after the babies during the day.
Hont1986 · 14/02/2022 18:52

Sounds like the majority have decided they want it to be a mixed group. I suggest if you want your own women's only group you follow the advice on this thread and set up your own.

PleasantBirthday · 14/02/2022 18:56

My partner also witnessed a lot more detail of my births than I did. Maybe the men would have contributing insight…

Into what?

BigFatLiar · 14/02/2022 18:57

I don't see why many men would want to attend. Coffee mornings don't sound like their sort of meeting. A lunch at the pub I think they'd go for but surely they simply need to call some if their mates and agree to meet.
No Internet or social media when ours were little and OH was main carer for the little ones, he just wrapped them up and took them with him to meet his friends or go to the allotment

VikingOnTheFridge · 14/02/2022 19:00

@Holskey

So, men can't join a group with women, and they can't advertise a men's only group in case they offend women, yet virtually every poster on here is asking why men don't setup their own groups?

I think they can set up their own group. There are ridiculous people all over the world and it seems some of them conspired to stop men creating a dads group in one instance reported by a PP (and it's probably happened elsewhere too). But I'm not convinced this is a common problem and I doubt many women are against it in general.

Agreed.
JustBlethering · 14/02/2022 19:01

My partner also witnessed a lot more detail of my births than I did. Maybe the men would have contributing insight…

Oh god, do we need our labour & births mansplained to us by a dad at a mums group?

Monopolyiscrap · 14/02/2022 19:03

@Hont1986

Sounds like the majority have decided they want it to be a mixed group. I suggest if you want your own women's only group you follow the advice on this thread and set up your own.
But it is a women's only group already.
ldontWanna · 14/02/2022 19:03

There's something else people tend to forget. During pregnancy and right after birth is when abuse can start or massively increase in intensity.

There are many things a woman might not feel comfortable sharing in the presence of a man,breastfeeding,aches,pains, lumps,bumps,bleeds,sex ,issues with partners etc. Abuse is definitely right at the top of that list and a lot more dangerous.

LionGiraffeMonkey · 14/02/2022 19:06

I think there’s a real lack of dad-only groups and activities which plays into the narrative that childcare is really a woman’s responsibility and the men can chip in from time to time.

JustLyra · 14/02/2022 19:07

@Holskey

So, men can't join a group with women, and they can't advertise a men's only group in case they offend women, yet virtually every poster on here is asking why men don't setup their own groups?

I think they can set up their own group. There are ridiculous people all over the world and it seems some of them conspired to stop men creating a dads group in one instance reported by a PP (and it's probably happened elsewhere too). But I'm not convinced this is a common problem and I doubt many women are against it in general.

They can set up their own group.

DH did it 20 years ago, and another guy did it a few years ago and DH took our youngest.

A one off example doesn’t preclude all men from starting groups. It’s just easier to piggy back ones already set up,

Monopolyiscrap · 14/02/2022 19:08

@jennytogether

My partner had a really lonely time looking after our daughter as a baby. All the groups he went to he found very clique. Many posters are talking about the things men wouldn’t be able to relate to, but what about the things that everyone could share, like looking after a baby… I hear that he could have organised his own male group but we’re in a small town and the sad thing is that there don’t seem to be many men taking shared parental leave. Or maybe there are but they aren’t meeting other men because the groups are a bit hostile so they stay at home.

I also think that the comments about men and their misogyny (golf clubs etc) are probably better directed at the ones who aren’t already sharing leave to look after their children.

My partner also witnessed a lot more detail of my births than I did. Maybe the men would have contributing insight…

There are always mixed groups. Maybe the groups were cliquey or maybe they just did not like your husband.
Confusedtraveler · 14/02/2022 19:11

I hate this horribly sexist attitude of blocking men to join things baby or children related, and then moan that men don't feel as involved in their child's life. You can't have it both ways.

Until we agree to have PARENTS groups, women are always going to lose out, because we naturally become the main carer from the start.

Breastfeeding is one thing, and literally giving birth the same, but insisting that it's a mum's area mean equality goes back yet again.
It's a joke to then expect to take parental leave equally, to share childcare absolutely equally, and demand that school no longer put mothers first on their caller list, and the list goes on.

Confusedtraveler · 14/02/2022 19:12

They can set up their own group.

but why having a DAD's group, instead of PARENT group?

SamphiretheStickerist · 14/02/2022 19:12

Grin Stretch Armstrong is in the house Smile

ldontWanna · 14/02/2022 19:13

@LionGiraffeMonkey

I think there’s a real lack of dad-only groups and activities which plays into the narrative that childcare is really a woman’s responsibility and the men can chip in from time to time.
That's because dads can't be bothered to set any up even if they actually want to attend, and the official dad ones show that. They make themselves as attractive as possible just to try and get the dads through the doors. Bacon,Saturdays,not at the crack of dawn etc.

If there was really that much need,interest and willingness there would be no need for that.

Iwannabewherethepeopleare · 14/02/2022 19:15

It’s tough. I think it’s the womens fault for taking their partners but not the fault of the dads invited iyswim. Also I know a couple of single dads that would benefit more from mixed parent groups than dads only as single full-time, male parents aren’t the norm and would be better speaking to other full-time parents or mums who do the lions share (not that they always do or should but they are usually the ones who take the most responsibility for child-rearing)