To think MN has it all wrong re proposals?

[alfayruz]

Inspired by a thread the other day, but also a general observation on here, I was thinking ... whenever anyone posts on MN about waiting for a proposal from their DP, you can guarantee hundreds of posts along the lines of ‘just propose to him....’ AIBU to think this is ridiculous because -

1. Nobody in actual real life does this

2. Having to propose to a man would be a massive turn off anyway so what is the point?

3. Even if you could still muster some kind of sexual attraction towards him, the bar is set at rock bottom before you even start - so why would you expect any initiative or effort from him on any other occasions or general life going forward?

AIBU?

Erm women do propose and the rest of your post is too stupid to bother with.

@alfayruz

Inspired by a thread the other day, but also a general observation on here, I was thinking ... whenever anyone posts on MN about waiting for a proposal from their DP, you can guarantee hundreds of posts along the lines of ‘just propose to him....’ AIBU to think this is ridiculous because -

1. Nobody in actual real life does this

2. Having to propose to a man would be a massive turn off anyway so what is the point?

3. Even if you could still muster some kind of sexual attraction towards him, the bar is set at rock bottom before you even start - so why would you expect any initiative or effort from him on any other occasions or general life going forward?

AIBU?

1. Yes they do? I know several people who've done this.

1. To you maybe - but that suggests a pretty strong attachment to traditional gender roles where the man leads the way in your life and you just accept the 'initiative and effort' from him, without making any of your own. That's not for everyone.

Personally, I don't think that's especially sexually attractive and therefore would have had no issue proposing to DH. As it is, we're one of those apparently annoying couples who just agreed to get married... weirdly, DH manages to show plenty of effort and initiative in our relationship, so thankfully we've managed to struggle along despite the lack of formal, asking-for-my-hand-in-marriage

Most couples I know had a conversation about their future, which ended with the man proposing in a semi-traditional way with a ring or token of some sort. Normally this took place at home or somewhere familiar. DH and I did it the same way, in bed one night, and DH gave me one of his own rings.

Unless you are my brother, who apparently took all his clothes off before getting down on one knee behind a bathroom door, waiting for SIL to exit.

Well, having proposed myself, I’d say 1 is untrue, 2 is a matter of personal preference, but 3 might be food for thought.

@ChocolateButtonsOfShame

Gosh. I proposed to mine. I asked because I love him and he's a brilliant partner. I don't doubt his commitment just because I was the one to propose. We're getting married in a couple of months. He's going to take my name. Our son already has my name, so we'll all be the same 🙂

My brother is also marrying this year, his fiancé proposed too.

Great. Why didn’t he propose to you out of interest?

I do sometimes wonder if I'm 'womaning' wrong because I just have no patience at all for trying to guess and influence DH into doing things.

We got together when I was 16, we'd had loads of conversations about our future and what we wanted in life before we go married, but getting married was very much a chat one day about how we'd been together a while and would be wanting kids soonish, so should probably get married soon, yeah we both said. Neither of us wanted a wedding really, we wanted a marriage, so we went online and booked a holiday to Vegas and spent 30 minutes on the chapel website picking options from drop down menus.

No proposals involved, don't have an engagement ring or a wedding ring for that matter. I got a cheapie ring for the service because I had to have something and he used one that he already had.

Seems to work for us, we've been together 22 years so far, married 16.

No but men haven’t changed that much. They will quite happily live with you, have sex with you and have kids with you. Often without the “grown up discussion”. Often just wine. Committing to something that gives you more should you split up is less readily given. Certainly less than any of those other scenarios.

There are various legal and financial benefits to marriage that aren't apparent with sex, cohabitation or having children. To my knowledge, none of them are dependent on the man being the one to propose.

It would have 100% killed my attraction to DH if he had subscribed to the view that a woman should patiently wait for a man to do her the honour of asking them to marry him instead of just saying what she wants.

Indeed, I would only have married someone with a more egalitarian approach to relationships. The kind of person who is capable of mature conversations where both people communicate openly and honestly about what is important to them.

I find men who buy into the old sexist traditions so offputting.

@Gynaesaur Well yes.
Unfortunately women tend to be the ones most hurt in the sexual, cohabitation, children situations.

Take having children. I mean why would any man not think he should offer the woman he’d impregnated the legal and financial benefits of marriage? She’s got to do the life/ body changing 9 months risking her health. She’s more than likely got to have some time out of her career even if it’s just a few weeks. Even if she turned his proposal down for whatever reason. Why would a man not ask?

95% of marriages have started with the man proposing. All graduates, all professionals, all fairly assertive capable woman.

@AlexaShutUp of course women should say if they want to be married. But so should men.
And if a man says he wants to marry you then he needs to actually do it. No proposal required from either party You can just do it.

@Campfirewood

95% of marriages have started with the man proposing. All graduates, all professionals, all fairly assertive capable woman.

Love the idea that's how a marriage works. Man pops up, proposes, and the women just have to go along with it

(kidding obvs - just pointing out that maybe the start of the marriage isn't actually the man asking, it's the relationship forming and developing to the extent that both parties actively consider spending the rest of their lives with each other...)

@LuckySnips I agree there was little commandeering but I was quite surprised (in a good way) by my proposal as were a few of my friends.
None of us desperately waiting out of pathetically clinging on to old school man, all professional assertive feminists.
We didn’t take umbrage or get mad.

Nothing against the man proposing - that's what happened with me too. Just was sooner than I expected, but both were fairly certain we were going to end up getting married!

Anyone remember Jerry Springer talking about proposals? He wisely said that a proposal shouldn't be a surprise to either party.

@Campfirewood

95% of marriages have started with the man proposing. All graduates, all professionals, all fairly assertive capable woman.

Do you have scientific evidence of that, @Campfirewood? I very much doubt it - especially as cross-sectional as you quote!

DH never proposed to me - and I used to feel a wee bit sad about that. But I don't now, because I think a classic movie-type-proposal rarely happens.....

I know 3 couples right now, who got engaged in the past 6 months, and all 3 women claim their man 'proposed.' I don't believe a word of it. I know all 3 men and they would NOT have proposed. Especially as 2 of them have not been keen on the idea of marriage -ever... I genuinely believe men getting down on one knee - and proposing -rarely happens now.

Me and DH met in 1983, and moved in together in 1985, and married in 1988.

In 1987, he said 'you wanna get engaged?' I said 'yeah OK then!' All my friends and cousins and neighbours were engaged or married already, so I was chuffed he asked. It wasn't really the 'done thing' in my (working class) social circle to ask a man.

Then about a year later, (early 1988,) I said 'when shall we get married then?' He said 'whenever you want to... Just book wherever you want, and let me know when it is.'

Sounds batshit now, but that is how it was, and he never asked for my hand in marriage from my dad (yuk) and my dad didn't care.

I don't believe most men 'propose' these days, and it's a thing from rom-coms mostly.

I find the whole 'going down on bended knee' thing so fucking cringey now... Who DOES that?

I proposed to my DH. He would have done it but I'd come out of a very destructive relationship and he didn't want to pressurise me.
He said yes very quickly and we celebrated our silver wedding anniversary last year.

I know of someone who proposed to their DH. It does happen in real life.

What gets me on MN is the attitude almost goes the other way - if it wasn't a discussion at the dinner table or a female proposal then you're a silly girl who doesn't care about the marriage, not a grown up, lost in a fairy tale etc.

My husband proposed to me, it was romantic and wonderful and the best moment of my life because having someone surprise you with a thoughtful moment to express how much they love you and want to be with you forever is amazing. These women who are so smug and superior about telling their DP to set a date in front of Netflix, well honestly I feel a bit sad imagining that. Some things should be special.

But you’re missing the point.

The point is to suggest to any woman who is miserably, hopelessly, endlessly waiting, in a state of pained passivity, for a proposal that may or may not ever come, to simply confront the issue: take some power back.

Who sits there waiting for it? You don’t have to propose but you should raise it for discussion - are we going to get married? What kind of adult just sits there waiting for someone to “step up”, whatever the fuck that means?

I mean, I might be the minority but the idea of a man proposing to me like the big decisions about our life together is a complete turn off to me, fuck that. I am a very decisive person, and when I want something, I make it happen. I make the decisions in my life, why should this be any different?

DH didn't propose. We talked about marriage as our relationship evolved and came to a mutual decision. That's also what happened with most of the people I know. And even the ones that have done the big proposal extravaganza (which I would have hated) have already agreed to marry. They perform the proposal for a photo op to post on social media as a way to announce their engagement.

I just find it bizarre how many women post on MN that they and their partner have agreed to marry, but "he hasn't proposed yet."

[quote lightisnotwhite]**@AlexaShutUp of course women should say if they want to be married. But so should men.
And if a man says he wants to marry you then he needs to actually do it. No proposal required from either party You can just do it.[/quote]
Yes, I quite agree that no proposal is required by either party. DH and I just mutually agreed to get married as it seemed like a natural progression in our relationship.

And yes, of course a man should be able to say what he wants. My point was not that a man shouldn't initiate conversations about marriage, but rather that I wouldn't want to be with a man who saw proposing as his responsibility because that implies an outdated sexist perspective in which the man calls all the shots. I wouldn't want to build a life with a man who thought in that way.

It’s not about ‘calling the shots.’ Men (generally) don’t just propose out if the blue. Nor do they tend to put themselves out there if they think there’s a good chance she might actually say no!

They just do it because it’s a meaningful way of marking the start of your lives together. It’s respectful and makes you feel special.