Does this sound normal behaviour for a ten year old?

[Missmummy88]

My son has always had big melts downs, think big toddler tantrums screaming shouting etc - then when he hit about 5-6 he would get angry and swipe things off sides push over chairs/laundry’s baskets. Now he is ten and he’s still being distrucyive but now very verbally abusive.

This happens most days.

Today he was angry with me because I told him his two hour tech was over (he has another hour at lunch). This is an arrangement he is aware of - I didn’t just rip tech away.

He then started rolling eyes, stomping about etc went upstairs where he’s 6 yo brother was playing Lego and with 2 minutes screaming and crying from my 6yo with a gash to the head where ten year old has thrown a book at him.

I tell him off & tell him he has now lost his lunch time hour. He loses it, starts telling me to fuck off you big fat idiot why do you hate everyone. Etc etc. From past experience I know this is escalating behaviour so I remove myself and 6yo to a safe space - he then let’s rip. Four boxes of Lego tipped everywhere - stuff thrown across the room and then he comes in with a piece of paper saying fuck off written on.

I ignore and when he leaves my room 6yo schrubches up and puts in bin.

Ten year old comes in demanding his paper screaming you fucking idiots multiple times.

He then walks around the house behind me about how awful a mum I am etc.

(I’m not awful just average - try my hardest like we all do!)

About one minute later he’s completely snapped out of it & is getting his shoes on to go to his friends house.

This is a common occurrence- meltdowns & verbal abuse.

He does get punished by removal of privileges like tech / no football cards etc. I just don’t do it while he’s melting as from experience he just gets worse so I wait until he’s calm to talk to him about it.

He has an asd assessment next week which I’ve paid for privately as school don’t see any of this behaviour.

I know this isn’t normal but does it sound like asd or does he just hate me?!

Very similar to me son with ASD, what other indicators are there? Sensory? Sleep? Relationship with friends? Organisational skills? Personal care?

That sounds tough. Why is he going to his friend’s house after that? What support do you have? Is dad around?

He definitely doesn’t hate you

We have a great support network - stable and loving relationship with his dad, grandparents all local and involved , I have some lovely friends and am good friends with his friends parents. Me and his dad both work (me part time) & no financial issues. On paper all good but in reality our home feels like a war zone.

I let him go because it had been arranged for weeks and friends mum had already booked swimming so didn’t feel it fair to ruin their day too!

He has some sensory issues a bit picky with food but not extreme. Sleeps well. Terrible organisational skills - loses everything - Forgets everything. Etc

You may already do this but thought it worth mentioning just in case you don’t and it could help you and your son. You mentioned he had a meltdown when you told him his tech time was up, even though he knows the arrangement. It might be possible that when he’s engaged with it he has no concept of time passing, so when you say time’s up it’s a surprise and he suddenly has to rip himself away and transition to something else which can be really difficult (I say this as an autistic person by the way). Perhaps having a timer he can see, with some warnings eg. popping in to say “15 minutes left so try to finish whatever you’re doing”, “10 minutes left” etc will help him. That way he can get to a point where he feels happy to leave it, and is able to start his own mental transition with enough time to be ok when time’s up.

It could also be worth allowing him some time to himself after the activity and then letting him engage in his own time, so he finishes tech then you allow him to just come down when he’s ready to do whatever’s next.

I don't think it's normal for a ten year old to tell their mum to fuck off, no.

Good idea thank you megmargs

I think the ASD query is really relevant here. Both my boys are ND and the oldest would do this at 10. He still has meltdowns of sorts - I don’t know the best way to manage though. None of the usual parenting techniques work.

This is something I really struggle with none of the parenting books help. I’m clueless. I dread the weekends but put up a brave face but it’s really breaking me

You need to just remain really consistent with taking away privileges if he behaves like that. Don't get into any verbal altercations at all. Completely disengage. Remove yourself from the situation. If he comes and apologises, great. Calmly explain that you won't be spoken to like that and as a result he won't get xyz for however long. Honestly just keep at it. He sounds like he's maybe got away with stuff in the past and thinks he can push it.

It will pass.

Try be really engaged when he is behaving well. Lots of extra encouragement and if he does something good, really reinforce it. Consistency is key though.

xxx

Posting to offer support. No magic answers. Just going through very similar and it made me cry reading your post. Parenting is bloody hard!

If the school don't see it - it's definitely a home problem.

My son does this. He has ASD/ADHD

"I let him go because it had been arranged for weeks and friends mum had already booked swimming so didn’t feel it fair to ruin their day too! "

It's his fault though. Wouldn't have let him go. Honestly you need to be tougher! Friends mum would have understood. If he arranges things with friends then say you can go, as long as behaviour has been good.

Honestly? I think I would completely remove all his tech stuff. For weeks. Not as a punishment but because it sounds as if he becomes completely emotionally disregulated by it.
Is your 6 year old afraid of him?

@emsmar

If the school don't see it - it's definitely a home problem.

I totally disagree with this comment. My son is a model pupil largely. He already had his diagnosis before he started school but he's also a master masker. Look up masking. Very common in children like this. My son does not behave like this at school.

Look at social stories, don’t expect that he will know how something with play out because it has happened before, lots of warnings for any transitions or changes.

@TheFormidableMrsC

Oh wow! Sorry. I retract my previous comment then. Will have a read up.

You let him go to his friend's house after all that, especially after he had cut your other younger son's head open throwing something at him? Wow.

DS is the same - identified as ASD at 11yo.

Not true that if school don’t see it then it is a home problem. DS masked so heavily at school for years. Since identification he is learning not to mask at school, and that has meant fewer meltdowns at home (as he is not bottling it all up).

Second the need to give “count down” warning to signal transitions - we do 2 something like 15 mins then 5 mins. To be honest the timing doesn’t actually matter for DS it is more about the “transition coming soon; transposition nearly here” signals.

Posting to offer support too.

I also second the timer thing. My dds don’t have tantrums but I do find they show less resistance to stopping an activity when they have a time warning, e.g. 5 mins to dinner, 5mins then time to get ready for bed. That way they don’t have to stop play abruptly. You can also do it 5mins early so you can give them an “extra” 5mins. There’s also some negotiation so if eldest is watching something and just has a few mins left I let them finish.

Not sure if it helps in your case but it helps a little here.

Of course, it is still tough and I feel your pain. I’ve just been told “I hate you” by my 8yr old for not letting her use oil paints without my supervision (just given to her by her grandfather) since she is prone to making a mess and I already have lots to tidy right now. It was very quickly retracted but some days feel like a constant battle :(

Both my DD's seconary age a both strongly suspected asd high functioning we are working towards a diagnosis .I was a team leader with asd adults so i spotted the signs .The advice i can offer is removing things like his tech , football cards wont help they will actually make matters worse as they are highly likely his way of coping .The meltdown i get it with mine if you can imagine so much intense emotion and pressure builds up they become both emotionally and sensory overwhelmed that itis literally like a pressure cooker going off .Make the area safe and just be there while they literally deal with all the emotion .Sometimes you can head off a meltown with distraction but sometimes it is inevitable .When he says he hates you honestly he does not you are his safe person he actually feels safe enough to have the meltdown around you .Do you notice a build up such as any stimming like fidgeting or rocking etc .With the tech have you tried have a clock that shows a timer how long he has left so he can see excatlly how long he has left .I do understand the meltdowns are hard .I dont know if you are aware but there is a private fb page you can join calle Parenting Mental Health lots of parents who can give great advice and support on there

If it is ASD meltdown then he is not being “naughty” he is out of control. He literally cannot control his emotional cascade.

We have found that how the meltdown plays out can be redirected by having 2 “absolutely must not cross” lines - no throwing anything and no kicking out / hitting out. Any other behaviour is acceptable when having a meltdown.

There are children who don’t have ASD who do this too, so if he doesn’t, I would speak to him not when it’s happening with and open conversation. There are more and more children struggling which their MH since the last two years have hit. Sometimes we need to analysis the feelings that build up to the moment of explosion, even if it’s super quick, and just unpick how it got there, how to recognise when it might happen again and then how to prevent it. Ask him how it feels (both physically and mentally), how he thinks it might make other people feel etc. Also share any instances where you might have felt the same and how you deal with those emotions. It’s not an instant fix but it can shift the understand for both you and him which can then figure out possibly solutions.

@emsmar children from secure homes almost always save their worst behaviour for at home where they feel safe to let it out, whether they’re NT or ND. As another person said, you should learn about masking.

OP this sounds a little like my dd who has ASD. Screen time is extremely stimulating and can make emotional regulation even more challenging. It’s difficult knowing what to do as you don’t necessarily want to ban screen time altogether but def be aware that it’s a trigger for meltdowns and think how to manage that.
I think taking some time to explain how to behave when angry - it’s ok to take time to yourself, it’s never ok to swear or to injure a sibling. That kind of behaviour needs the removal of privileges to send a clear message that this is totally unacceptable.
I hope you get support in learning how to best manage it all. We’re still looking for answers too, we’re also having a pretty rough time at home just now. My dd is the same age as your son and I think the hormones kicking in can escalate stuff that’s already going on.