Does this sound normal behaviour for a ten year old?

[Missmummy88]

My son has always had big melts downs, think big toddler tantrums screaming shouting etc - then when he hit about 5-6 he would get angry and swipe things off sides push over chairs/laundry’s baskets. Now he is ten and he’s still being distrucyive but now very verbally abusive.

This happens most days.

Today he was angry with me because I told him his two hour tech was over (he has another hour at lunch). This is an arrangement he is aware of - I didn’t just rip tech away.

He then started rolling eyes, stomping about etc went upstairs where he’s 6 yo brother was playing Lego and with 2 minutes screaming and crying from my 6yo with a gash to the head where ten year old has thrown a book at him.

I tell him off & tell him he has now lost his lunch time hour. He loses it, starts telling me to fuck off you big fat idiot why do you hate everyone. Etc etc. From past experience I know this is escalating behaviour so I remove myself and 6yo to a safe space - he then let’s rip. Four boxes of Lego tipped everywhere - stuff thrown across the room and then he comes in with a piece of paper saying fuck off written on.

I ignore and when he leaves my room 6yo schrubches up and puts in bin.

Ten year old comes in demanding his paper screaming you fucking idiots multiple times.

He then walks around the house behind me about how awful a mum I am etc.

(I’m not awful just average - try my hardest like we all do!)

About one minute later he’s completely snapped out of it & is getting his shoes on to go to his friends house.

This is a common occurrence- meltdowns & verbal abuse.

He does get punished by removal of privileges like tech / no football cards etc. I just don’t do it while he’s melting as from experience he just gets worse so I wait until he’s calm to talk to him about it.

He has an asd assessment next week which I’ve paid for privately as school don’t see any of this behaviour.

I know this isn’t normal but does it sound like asd or does he just hate me?!

@ontana

I don't think it's normal for a ten year old to tell their mum to fuck off, no.

With respect it is not unusual for a child with asd too just because of the sheer amount of sensory overwhelm they may be under at that given time .They are not naughty just overwhelmed ,

You can buy timers which you program. There is a red light then an orange then a green. It beeps as it changes colour. Set it for the allocated time and the child is warned as the time decreases.

Hi op.. my daughter is on the autistic spectrum and yes she can be like this.

I personally strongly believe he should go out with q friend . Being outdoors or physically active with other children is good for him and its a break for you. Why punish him in a way thst worsens his mood and leaves you with a very angry child stuck in the house.

Do you think 2 hours is OK on tech ? I find that on the long side in terms of impact on my kids mood.

If you are going to make punishments it would not be sering friends or playing out and about I would really crack down on the tech. That also seems to be something he is not coping well with.

@GrazingSheep

Honestly? I think I would completely remove all his tech stuff. For weeks. Not as a punishment but because it sounds as if he becomes completely emotionally disregulated by it. Is your 6 year old afraid of him?

No, that is really bad advice if this little lad does have SN. Punishment is not the answer. He can't help it. He will snap out of it as quickly as it happens and be totally himself again pretty quickly. Punishing him does absolutely nothing in circumstances like these.

@emsmar sorry never mind my comment, I see you already wrote a message to the other poster

My asd 7 year old uses phrases like I hate you . Fat idiot etc. She is the meekest child ever at school. She gets very overwhelmed when losing her temper then will sob and apologise.

'Normal' behaviour is the wrong word because it implies that there is something somehow wrong (also the wrong word, can't think of the right one).

But in answer to your question, no my NT dc would never behave like this.

But my friends child with autism would.

Good luck op, it sounds incredibly hard.

I would really recommend reading The Explosive Child by Ross Greene, he takes a very different approach.
I don’t think that more traditional parenting methods with escalating punishments work for
Neurodivergent children.
While screen time can be intense and a source of frustration many people with asd find it enormously helpful in regulating themselves, it is their escape from a world that is very challenging and a way to de-stress.

He is struggling to regulate his emotions when transitioning from a highly stimulating activity to something else.

This can be managed by reinforcing time boundaries and encouraging transfusion to something also stimulating or regulation activity (Google emotional regulation soothing activities, vestibular input)

This can be normal for a kid that just hates coming off gaming (I do see it in kids same age who just don't want to come off, the activity is highly addictive) or like my kid who also has no organisational skills and loses everything ca. be a SEN need like developmental co-ordination disorder (dyspraxia)

YABU to put up with this behaviour. Try to get help from GP or go to private counselling if you can afford it. Is it only with you that he acts like this? What behaviours does he exhibit with his father?

@Missmummy88

My son has always had big melts downs, think big toddler tantrums screaming shouting etc - then when he hit about 5-6 he would get angry and swipe things off sides push over chairs/laundry’s baskets. Now he is ten and he’s still being distrucyive but now very verbally abusive.

This happens most days.

Today he was angry with me because I told him his two hour tech was over (he has another hour at lunch). This is an arrangement he is aware of - I didn’t just rip tech away.

He then started rolling eyes, stomping about etc went upstairs where he’s 6 yo brother was playing Lego and with 2 minutes screaming and crying from my 6yo with a gash to the head where ten year old has thrown a book at him.

I tell him off & tell him he has now lost his lunch time hour. He loses it, starts telling me to fuck off you big fat idiot why do you hate everyone. Etc etc. From past experience I know this is escalating behaviour so I remove myself and 6yo to a safe space - he then let’s rip. Four boxes of Lego tipped everywhere - stuff thrown across the room and then he comes in with a piece of paper saying fuck off written on.

I ignore and when he leaves my room 6yo schrubches up and puts in bin.

Ten year old comes in demanding his paper screaming you fucking idiots multiple times.

He then walks around the house behind me about how awful a mum I am etc.

(I’m not awful just average - try my hardest like we all do!)

About one minute later he’s completely snapped out of it & is getting his shoes on to go to his friends house.

This is a common occurrence- meltdowns & verbal abuse.

He does get punished by removal of privileges like tech / no football cards etc. I just don’t do it while he’s melting as from experience he just gets worse so I wait until he’s calm to talk to him about it.

He has an asd assessment next week which I’ve paid for privately as school don’t see any of this behaviour.

I know this isn’t normal but does it sound like asd or does he just hate me?!

I would say two things about that, whats his father like and is he around? and has he been assessed for ASD?

@emsmar

If the school don't see it - it's definitely a home problem.

This is so far off the mark! My DD has never had a meltdown at school. They would be utterly shocked to see how she sometimes is at home. Children with ASD can sometimes hold it together for ages until it all goes poof, it is entirely dependent on the child.

Sounds like much of this is outside of his control. Can you get an assessment done? Things like OT can really help with sensory needs. It has a benefit for everyone in the family. Hope the 6yo is okay.

This is so far off the mark!
My DD has never had a meltdown at school. They would be utterly shocked to see how she sometimes is at home.
Children with ASD can sometimes hold it together for ages until it all goes poof, it is entirely dependent on the child.

yeah my son does it all at school but that might just be because I know how to deal with him and they dont.

My son is 10 and has ADHD and this is all very similar. I always wondered why everything the parenting books - and my friends - suggested didn’t work which all makes sense now I know he’s neurodiverse. He struggles changing from one activity to another so we now use visual timers and I give him regular countdowns - he needs at least 3 warnings that an activity is going to end.

I find his emotional dysregulation hard at this age because he goes from 0-100 in a split second with no time to intervene and help him manage his emotion. I have learned not to react as that just escalates it - but difficult when he’s spoiling for it!

What’s your son like when he’s calmed down? Once DS has gone through the cycle he’s usually very upset and remorseful.

I was thinking autistic meltdown before I reached the point where you say that he is soon being assessed. It does sound similar to my Ds who has ASD. I agree with the poster who suggested giving warnings that his time limit is coming up, I found this helped. I have also realised that after a meltdown it seems to get wiped from his memory so punishment for behaviour that happens whilst in a meltdown is pointless as he doesn't understand what he is being punished for. Good luck with the assessment, I hope you get some answers.

That sounds like a huge amount of screen time. He’s only 10. Have you ever seen what his behaviour is like with a week of zero screen time?

No it’s not normal behaviour. Neither is three hours of tech by lunchtime normal. It’s far too much.

Sending you big hugs.

We have very similar but from my middle son. The school have (in the last year) been helpful and we were referred to Early Help in December.
It is a section of Social Services, but don’t let that deter you as the advisors truly just want to help provide support and keep you and your youngest safe.

I’m also doing a course on NVR to help with coping strategies, although I have already done 3 other courses which have been based around parenting/supporting…tricky…children, but I’ll see how it goes.

I was typing quickly before my middle son came over as he wanted to ask a question about Pokemon. I jumbled up my sentence re: Ealry Help and meant to put the following re: advisors

*and would provide support to

Could be ASD. I agree it's worth getting it checked out, definitely.

You've had lost of good ideas here but also, if ordinary parenting books aren't a lot of use then one book that has helped me a lot is Ross Greene's Explosive Child book and Lives in the Balance website. It takes a different approach from most parenting books by avoiding "reward/punish" (they often made make my DS behaviour worse!) and it doesn't depend on any specific diagnosis. I found it very helpful for my DS who ended up with an ASC diagnosis.

@Missmummy88 Could he be picking up this behaviour from somewhere?

It's not normal behaviour but it may not all be coming from him. Has he seen it somewhere around or on TV?

It's not acceptable for him to be abusive to you and his younger sibling. That holds true regardless of diagnosis.

(Before the onslaught of hate I've had for making comments like this in the past: I am not neurotypical.)

Mine have asd/adhd. Iv one very prone to this.
We removed all technology for a while and it did help. We created safe space when he kicked off and was kept being directed to it. Visual things can be useful but you need to work on them with him when he is calm. We have a book called the red beast and we describe his anger as the red beast now.

I'm interested in what other people on here think of boundaries. Since all mine are neurodiverse with have the rule if you hurt someone there is a consequence. (We have household rules we made together)

He caused a gash on the 6 year olds head then was allowed to walk out the house. I would be querying use of boundaries. When it happened in our house that they have hurt each other seriously the kids know the rule it's grounded for a week and loss of all electronics for a week.

Screen time is extremely stimulating and can make emotional regulation even more challenging

For some children. Screen time (mainly TV but also computer games) helped to calm mine.

Since all mine are neurodiverse with have the rule if you hurt someone there is a consequence.

My DS didn't have any siblings but we and the school were consistent about punishing any physical attacks on other children, but we mostly let verbal go. ASC is a communication disorder so insults often go with the territory, reminders may be useful but you can't punish too many behaviours at once and physical safety trumps everything else.

Also I found rudeness and insults were often a sign of the "rumbling stage" before full meltdown. One of my finest parenting moments was the after-school-show party when my (overstimulated) 6yo DS was snarling and insulting me, the other kids were looking at me anxiously, and I put on my best calm voice and said "oh, shall I open your juice? Here it is" and DS simmered down and we survived a meltdown-free school party Nearly 20 years ago and I still remember that with pride.

It's not acceptable for him to be abusive to you and his younger sibling. That holds true regardless of diagnosis.

As the Americans used to say, that and 10 cents will get you a cup of coffee. Of course it's not acceptable. The child already knows it is not acceptable. But he can't stop himself and you have not explained how you expect the OP to stop him.