Does this sound normal behaviour for a ten year old?

[Missmummy88]

My son has always had big melts downs, think big toddler tantrums screaming shouting etc - then when he hit about 5-6 he would get angry and swipe things off sides push over chairs/laundry’s baskets. Now he is ten and he’s still being distrucyive but now very verbally abusive.

This happens most days.

Today he was angry with me because I told him his two hour tech was over (he has another hour at lunch). This is an arrangement he is aware of - I didn’t just rip tech away.

He then started rolling eyes, stomping about etc went upstairs where he’s 6 yo brother was playing Lego and with 2 minutes screaming and crying from my 6yo with a gash to the head where ten year old has thrown a book at him.

I tell him off & tell him he has now lost his lunch time hour. He loses it, starts telling me to fuck off you big fat idiot why do you hate everyone. Etc etc. From past experience I know this is escalating behaviour so I remove myself and 6yo to a safe space - he then let’s rip. Four boxes of Lego tipped everywhere - stuff thrown across the room and then he comes in with a piece of paper saying fuck off written on.

I ignore and when he leaves my room 6yo schrubches up and puts in bin.

Ten year old comes in demanding his paper screaming you fucking idiots multiple times.

He then walks around the house behind me about how awful a mum I am etc.

(I’m not awful just average - try my hardest like we all do!)

About one minute later he’s completely snapped out of it & is getting his shoes on to go to his friends house.

This is a common occurrence- meltdowns & verbal abuse.

He does get punished by removal of privileges like tech / no football cards etc. I just don’t do it while he’s melting as from experience he just gets worse so I wait until he’s calm to talk to him about it.

He has an asd assessment next week which I’ve paid for privately as school don’t see any of this behaviour.

I know this isn’t normal but does it sound like asd or does he just hate me?!

He attacks his brother, chucks stuff everywhere, swears and shouts and calls you names repeatedly, and then gets to go to his mate’s house and go swimming? Fuck sake.

Did he come out of the 'tantrum' naturally or was it because he knew it was time to go to his friend's house?

You might want your thread moved to Special Needs as you will likely get lots of people going on about technology and discipline here.

Sounds very likely ASD, do you have any family who have been diagnosed? Or who are likely (but under the radar due to masking etc).

We spent a long time with a therapist teaching DS (who is autistic) alternative ways to take out his frustrations on 'things which don't have feelings' so hitting the sofa, writing things down, kicking a ball in the garden etc . Took a LONG time. Have you given him any alternatives to let his anger out on?

Also we don't have screen time limits as he has a demand avoidant profile but he understands regular movement breaks and has the same time to turn it off each day. Has a clock right next to him and countdowns etc. I expect many on this thread would be aghast at no screen limits etc but after years of trying regular 'punishments' etc and DC refusing school we have found low demand approach works best .

I second you get the post moved to special needs as some of the pure uneducated comments here are not in the least helpful .I will give hem the benefit of the doubt as say they do not understand neurodiverse children and leave it at that .

I would like to know how you handled it the very first time he lost his temper as a little tot.

I’d definitely go ahead with an assessment for ASD/autism/ADHD.

It doesn’t sound that normal, but also not unusual in families where there’s either an emotionally unstable household, abuse (which you may not know about), neglect or other traumatic incident like Dad leaving home etc.

It needs dealing with and tackling before he grows up to be an angry teenager then man who may abuse his partner. Counselling should help hugely.

And cut out the screen time, sugary foods and drinks and make bed times consistent. Make sure he never goes to bed on an empty stomach as hunger always makes moods worse.

This sounds a lot like ADHD, are you also having him assessed for that (in addition to the ASD).

Sounds v typical of ASD. You may not be able to get rid of this behaviour in full but you do need to try and find the triggers. I definitely agree with the timers. This works well with my dd. I give 5 min warnings of transitions and then 2 mins. It really helps.

My eldest does this sometimes. He's 14 and has AHD, ASD and ODD. He is medicated which helps hugely and these meltdowns are rare now because of the meds.

With a few differences I could have written your post and my son has a recent asd diagnosis. Tonight he broke his dad, it's pretty much tearing us apart and I also dread weekends as no matter how much structure I put into them, it's still not the same routine even with keeping to bed times etc. I think that's a major struggling point at weekends for him. Could that be for your son? Sometimes a little leeway really doesn't help them at all.

He's injured your 6 year old. Behaved appallingly and the only sanction is losing an hours tech time?

That's not an acceptable consequence for such poor behaviour imo.

Maybe post in parenting for more help?

We can't say for definite that he is neurodiverse.

My dd was similar and is neurotypical.

Hope you get some answers and some help op.

@7eleven

That sounds tough. Why is he going to his friend’s house after that? What support do you have? Is dad around?

This.you shouldn’t have let him go. Gosh I hope you get the help you need now because he’ll only get bigger and stronger. Where was his dad during this?

Take him to the GP and insist on some help from them or social services, don't wait for that referral appointment, keep on at them, pay if you can. Regardless of whether he is NT or not, your 6 year old is not your son's punching bag, that is horrific. Being attacked and having his things thrown about is awful and no way for him to be living. It will damage him

@Megmargs

You may already do this but thought it worth mentioning just in case you don’t and it could help you and your son. You mentioned he had a meltdown when you told him his tech time was up, even though he knows the arrangement. It might be possible that when he’s engaged with it he has no concept of time passing, so when you say time’s up it’s a surprise and he suddenly has to rip himself away and transition to something else which can be really difficult (I say this as an autistic person by the way). Perhaps having a timer he can see, with some warnings eg. popping in to say “15 minutes left so try to finish whatever you’re doing”, “10 minutes left” etc will help him. That way he can get to a point where he feels happy to leave it, and is able to start his own mental transition with enough time to be ok when time’s up.

It could also be worth allowing him some time to himself after the activity and then letting him engage in his own time, so he finishes tech then you allow him to just come down when he’s ready to do whatever’s next.

Very good suggestions

Could this be adhd meltdowns, worth a look.
Often cross over with asd and often masks at school.

Sorry I missed that you've paid. I hope you get some answers and that you and your kids are ok

I think Id have made him help tidy up the mess he made before allowing him to go to his friends house at the very least, nt or not. Do you ever do this?

I can tell from the responses which parents are dealing with SEND day in day out and those who have no idea about SEND issues at all.

Op, What you have described sounds quite familiar to what goes on here. It’s hard work all the time.

I also wish getting help and support was easy as some posters think it is. I have been asking for help for years. We finally got to the top of the Early help waiting list, but they had no suggestions that I hadn’t already tried. We were then finally referred for an asd diagnosis. Dc was diagnosed Just over 12 months ago. We have had zero support since then, despite being referred to the correct people. We have been put on waiting lists, But these are so long and it so frustrating waiting for help when we need support so much and when early intervention would Have benefited us all So much.

The school SENCO is unhelpful, the LA are failing according to Ofsted, autism services have been cut in our area. Until we were part of the system I had no idea how awful it was. I assumed that if you needed support it was there and it is crushing to know that there is no help out there for us.

Just to add he sounds almost exactly like my son but he’s 5 and a half and diagnosed with Aspergers and ADHD you have my sympathy and support, it’s VERY difficult 😞

Maybe not got much to offer my eldest has adhd asd and mental health and is the same. As is my brother also asd.

Instead of ordinary parenting books try reading the explosive child.

IF it is meltdowns it is important to know you are doing the best, when they are in this mode you cannot snap them out of it and everything you do to add emotions ( this can be to overly calm them or punish with tech ect will escalate the situation) they are struggling to process the emotion ( anger ) and can be very egocentric ( this is not a bad thing its just sometimes they see their needs and wants only ) possible ideas ...

Gradual visual timers at the end of technology time
Calm down area where you can begin encouraging him to go when he's feeling overwhelmed ( this may take time)
Let both him and you forget anything hurtful said during the time they usually genuinely can't control this and usually feel so hard done by they see red.

Good luck and your doing awesome my 6 y/o also deals with brunt but we've progressed alot now and physical is rare

@Missmummy88

I would recommend you ask for this thread to be removed unless you are very thick skinned.

You suspect ASD and are having him assessed accordingly. Rightly so.

There will be many people here with no experience of ASD or suspected ASD who will take great delight in blaming his behaviour on you as a parent.

Sounds an awful lot like my 12 year old. Diagnosed ASD with a PDA profile (demand avoidant), ADHD, SPD and tourettes. I second reading the explosive child.
My son has as much screen time as he wants, his ipad is available to him 24/7. He uses it to self regulate and as a result of having it available at all times, he actually uses it less.
The first thing you need to do is contact your GP. My son masks in school and always has done. They have NEVER seen any of the behaviour I have to deal with at home.

@AmaryllisNightAndDay We don't know whether the child can stop himself or not. You are assuming and guessing, just like everyone else.

He may well be ND! But we don't know, and even if he is, that behaviour has to stop. It isn't actually compulsory to provide a magic solution every time one comments on MN, you know. My comments here are wary of suggesting things precisely because of our limited knowledge of the situation, the ambiguity over possible diagnosis, and respect for OP's own experiences. I just happen to prefer to centre those who were attacked and harmed, and to underline the fact that this is always unacceptable, totally regardless of any neurodiversity in the picture.