Does this sound normal behaviour for a ten year old?

[Missmummy88]

My son has always had big melts downs, think big toddler tantrums screaming shouting etc - then when he hit about 5-6 he would get angry and swipe things off sides push over chairs/laundry’s baskets. Now he is ten and he’s still being distrucyive but now very verbally abusive.

This happens most days.

Today he was angry with me because I told him his two hour tech was over (he has another hour at lunch). This is an arrangement he is aware of - I didn’t just rip tech away.

He then started rolling eyes, stomping about etc went upstairs where he’s 6 yo brother was playing Lego and with 2 minutes screaming and crying from my 6yo with a gash to the head where ten year old has thrown a book at him.

I tell him off & tell him he has now lost his lunch time hour. He loses it, starts telling me to fuck off you big fat idiot why do you hate everyone. Etc etc. From past experience I know this is escalating behaviour so I remove myself and 6yo to a safe space - he then let’s rip. Four boxes of Lego tipped everywhere - stuff thrown across the room and then he comes in with a piece of paper saying fuck off written on.

I ignore and when he leaves my room 6yo schrubches up and puts in bin.

Ten year old comes in demanding his paper screaming you fucking idiots multiple times.

He then walks around the house behind me about how awful a mum I am etc.

(I’m not awful just average - try my hardest like we all do!)

About one minute later he’s completely snapped out of it & is getting his shoes on to go to his friends house.

This is a common occurrence- meltdowns & verbal abuse.

He does get punished by removal of privileges like tech / no football cards etc. I just don’t do it while he’s melting as from experience he just gets worse so I wait until he’s calm to talk to him about it.

He has an asd assessment next week which I’ve paid for privately as school don’t see any of this behaviour.

I know this isn’t normal but does it sound like asd or does he just hate me?!

@AmaryllisNightAndDay

CAMHS in my LA won’t even accept a referral for assessment of ASD of a child demonstrating such behaviours at home until the parent has completed Triple P.

Oh well, it all helps to slow down referrals and stop the system getting overwhelmed. And "Triple P didn't help much" would be another indication that there's something worth investigating.

To be fair you can probably adapt Triple P. I did mix'n'match with DS - some Explosive Child, some ASC (post diagnosis), some mainstream, and an "Incredible Years" at our children's hospital. Mainstream just didn't touch the sides on his most challenging behaviour. After referral but while DS was waiting for NHS assessment the GP pointed me at a mainstream parenting group (can't remember if it was Triple P or some other validated programme) and the leader encouraged me to use the Explosive Child strategies I'd already picked up as well.

Did you find these strategies useful? Sounds like you’re committed to finding ways to accommodate your child’s difficulties.

@TheFormidableMrsC what so don't punish him fir hurting another child
My cousins son has asd he has always been punished along with his brothers and sisters , maybe in a slightly different way but there are consequences and sometimes he can just be naughty
Surely if you did this at school there would be consequences regardless of a diagnosis

@Foxglovesandlilacs86

What happens when he does this? What are the consequences? If he doesn’t do it at school then sounds like it’s lack of discipline/respect.

Yawn.

Educate yourself.

Did you find these strategies useful?

Oh yes, but there's no one size fits all, we adapted and figured out what worked for him Parenting courses do help because you can discuss your child's specifics and how to adapt - if the leader's any good that is.

The pre-diagnosis bit was the worst, you can't know how to discipline effectively until you know what the child's issues are. And there's more to a diagnosis than just a name. The name is useful (especially if it brings the right help!) but it's only a starting point for understanding what's not working. The real gold was the investigations behind the diagnosis because they told us some of what DS didn't understand and the connections he wasn't making and we could figure out more by finding out more about his condition and especially from talking to other parents.

For a simple example, just knowing your very clever DC is being literal-minded and not sarcastically taking the piss saves you from accusing them of "disrespect" and a round of misplaced "consequences".

Sounds like you’re committed to finding ways to accommodate your child’s difficulties.

DS has grown up and graduated and left home now but yes, that's what we did. The clinical psychologist told DH and me that we had to manage DS's issues for him until he was able to manage them for himself. So as much as possible (and it wasn't always possible!) we kept him calm enough to think. No-one learns while they're in a disorganised mental state they just do what ever releases the mental pressure like having a meltdown or chucking a book at their brother's head. Logic and consequences are out the window til they calm down which is what the OP has already found and that's where Explosive Child comes in. But when you've done the best prevention and you still see the storm coming, sometimes all you can do is batten down the hatches and try to keep everyone safe til it passes. Introduce "consequences" at the wrong time and you add to the mental chaos and drag the tantrum/ rudeness/ aggression/ danger etc out longer. Teaching and learning happen at calm times.

sometimes he can just be naughty

Daily meltdowns and throwing a book at his brother's head are not "just being naughty". And my DS could be naughty - once he complained that he didn't want his school one-to-one because he never had a chance to misbehave like the others! His teacher agreed that was a fair point and they pulled the one-to-one back a bit.

@AmaryllisNightAndDay
Sometimes, having 1:1 support can be detrimental because it doesn’t allow children to work things out by themselves. And yes, I know not all children will be able to self learn, and some need close supervision a great deal of the time. But that close support needn’t be velcroed to the child!
I don’t mean to be condescending, but you sound like a fabulous parent!

I teach 10-year-olds and no this is not normal behaviour. I’m glad you’re getting him assessed because it sounds as if he is really struggling. Must be very difficult for all of you.

It’s actually surprisingly common for kids to be perfect at school and nightmares at home. The pressure of behaving and conforming all day at school can be exhausting for some kids and they meltdown afterwards through exhaustion. Home is his safe place where he knows you’ll love him whatever happens so unfortunately this is where he lets off steam.

As others have said, try to help him with the transition between activities with timers, 5 minute warnings and pre-agreed rewards/punishments. When he’s calm, talk to him about how you can help him and work together to improve his behaviour, making it clear that you’re doing it because you love him and know that life is going to be very difficult for him if he continues to explode with rage whenever things don’t go his way.

I suspect he may respond well to quite a black-and-white approach, and it may help for you to explain your thought process when he’s calm and able to listen eg. ‘We’re all feeling upset because you got so angry earlier. When you did xyz that hurt my feelings and hurt your brother’s head. I don’t want you to do this again so I need to find a way to stop you doing it. I’m wondering whether I should cancel your play date as a punishment- but then that punishes your friend too, which isn’t fair. So instead I have decided to reduce your screen time to 30 mins twice a day / [insert appropriate punishment]. Next time you feel really angry, how can you make yourself feel better without hurting your family? Would it help to hit a punchbag instead? [or jump on trampoline, cry, shout in bedroom for 1 min, whatever you think might work]’

I know some parents who are really amazing at talking to their autistic kids (not saying yours is, but if he’s wired up a little differently it’s worth applying the same logic) and giving them the skills to articulate their distress in such a way that it doesn’t make the situation worse. I think it boils down to the following:

1. helping them be prepared (for the unexpected, for change, etc) 2)listening to them, and teaching them how to articulate themselves
2. explaining a world that doesn’t make sense (hence thinking aloud to help them understand why you’re reacting the way you are)

I often ‘think aloud’ when a pupil has unwittingly been very offensive to other children and I think it’s effective. It tells them exactly what they did wrong and why, it rationalises the punishment, and also shows the other kids that you’re dealing with the problem.

Good luck. You sound like a very loving mum at the end of your tether so I hope you get some answers!