Tinder Swindler - victims should accept some accountability

[sometimespeopletakethepiss]

I can completely understand how these ladies could have fell for this guy BUT what I don't understand is the lack of accountability for their poor judgement.

In my life I would never, ever lend money to anyone unless it is money I could afford to lose - and if I did I feel like I'd have to own it as my own poor judgement.

AIBU to think the ladies should repay the money themselves or declare bankruptcy, not setup a 'go fund me' page and take it as a lesson learned?

@sammylady37

You wouldn't see it as a dig if you really believed virtue was its own reward, that's the point. You would be secure in your superiority

You’re the one who said virtue was it’s own reward, not me.
As I said, I see nothing virtuous in being a responsible adult, it’s just normal. Not superior. Normal.

But you clearly think your empathy and compassion makes you a better person than me. Maybe it does- I don’t think that’s for either of us to adjudicate on.

And I’m not angry, I’m just gobsmacked at the ongoing failure to take responsibility, willingness to be bankrolled by others and how so many seem to think this is ok.

I'm not encouraging any more of this moralistic projection and defensiveness. It's beside the point and tedious as hell.

It was the getting on the plane after knowing him for an hour that really baffled me.
He could've been a sex trafficker or anything.
If you're stupid enough to do that then you really have no hope.

Would they have got in a black cab with him to the other side of London if he'd have turned up looking a bit scruffier? Or in just a casual outfit? Most likely not. But because he had the billionaire image and the private jet they went with him immediately.

I really do feel for them because that would ruin so many lives but you do have to blame yourself somewhat.
I like the last woman that took his clothes to sell. She had something about her at least to get a small amount of pay back.

Hahaha. So funny people are giving them money when they’re clearly living great lives holidaying in 5star hotels. Got to admire the women for that!

@lemondrop21

It was the getting on the plane after knowing him for an hour that really baffled me. He could've been a sex trafficker or anything. If you're stupid enough to do that then you really have no hope.

Would they have got in a black cab with him to the other side of London if he'd have turned up looking a bit scruffier? Or in just a casual outfit? Most likely not. But because he had the billionaire image and the private jet they went with him immediately.

I really do feel for them because that would ruin so many lives but you do have to blame yourself somewhat.
I like the last woman that took his clothes to sell. She had something about her at least to get a small amount of pay back.

I hate to say this, but it was that first woman who came across as ridiculously desperate.

I think we really need to be careful about victim blaming here.
One thing that struck me was the fact that he claimed to be in the diamond business, the same as that other scammer who the Serpent was based on. Difference was he actually killed a lot of his victims. The victims then weren’t blamed as much, Is that because they were men?
Do we blame pensioners when they give cash to some random bloke who knocks on their door claiming that they can repair their roof? No not really we don’t call them stupid idiots do we?
Do we blame women who get pregnant to some random man, then sit crying when he pisses off? Especially when they know he already has kids and had done it before.
I think these women are getting a head time because they are young, attractive women.
I’m obviously not his target market but I’ve never been the target market for any bloke to hook up with /have kids with / look after their kids/ let some strange bloke fix my roof etc etc
I’m quite critical and don’t suffer fools.
I’ll say it again if one of my dcs showed pictures of some twat looking like he did or some women half naked I would tell them exactly what I thought and it would not be positive.
An ex friend of mine met a bloke. The first thing that came out of her mouth when she told me was “He is a millionaire.”
I just looked at her in dismay. Needless to say the relationship was a disaster.

@Theluggage15

Hahaha. So funny people are giving them money when they’re clearly living great lives holidaying in 5star hotels. Got to admire the women for that!

I don’t think that’s in any way admirable, tbh.

His victims were beautiful, single, privileged women.
They needed to have enough self esteem to believe they could bag a billionaire in the first place. "I deserve this."

Yes, these were two highly privileged women, not 'vulnerable' at all.

They thought they had hit the jackpot, and that is why they allowed themselves to be duped by this chancer. It wasn't generosity, or vulnerability. They thought they'd get it all paid back with interest, and soon resume the life of being flown around on private jets and staying in 5K a night hotels in Mykonos. One of them thought he was seriously thinking about marriage.

And before someone comes shouting at me about 'victim blaming', I'm in no way excusing what happened to them. But their greed and ego allowed them to be scammed, and that, frankly, is their problem.

One thing that struck me was the fact that he claimed to be in the diamond business, the same as that other scammer who the Serpent was based on. Difference was he actually killed a lot of his victims. The victims then weren’t blamed as much, Is that because they were men?

Given that many of his victims were women, I doubt it.

I felt really sorry for the women. The first one seemed so desperate considering jumping on the plane on the first date and being together for a month and taking out money but the other two women especially the last one where he was supposedly in a relationship for 14 months. He portrays himself as a rich billionaire and finds that market where there are women that want to be saved and the first woman admits that. At first I thought how the hell could he scam women like that want to be saved so won't have that kind of money in the first place but then watching how he made them employed so they can raise their credit/loan allowance just explains it better.

As I'm someone who has used tinder in the past, I think if a man asked 30k from me especially a billionaire, I would block him because he could find 30k and 30k means nothing for a billionaire and that would set alarm bells for me. For him to know the ins and outs of taking out quick loans or how to raise a credit loan is someone who is a scammer would know, not a billionaire. I would tell him to pawn his watch or sell his clothes or sell his car. For me, 30k is a deposit for a flat and to a billionaire 30k is nothing and if he is asking me for that then there is something seriously wrong. I guess these women wanted in for the long term gain which is a bit like short term investment, longtime gain. These are very very vulnerable women that have been emotionally blackmailed but are incredibly gullible.

The second woman was a friend and was very concerned about his welfare and the other two and for him to rob them like that shows he is the utter scumbag not the woman.

Yes, these were two highly privileged women, not 'vulnerable' at all

Anybody can be emotionally vulnerable
Boundaries/self esteem are not automatically bestowed on the privileged
I had an ex swindle me out of a large sum of money
It can happen to anyone
Do agree they could have showed more personal accountability here
To help educate youth on how not to fall prey to these love scams
Believe the girl who sold the clothes seemed to take some accountability & action
Didn't like the flippant ending where the first girl went straight back on Tinder
Without any apparent time for self reflection & healing!
Completely bankrupt & fresh out of a mental institution is arguably not a great place to start a relationship

When your home towns are Oslo and Stockholm maybe meeting up in a hotel in greece works out cheaper. I do understand though that when you have a ''gofundme'' it might be seen that you want other people to fund your holiday. I feel sorry for them but I won't contribute to their gofundme. They deserve a holiday and I'm glad they have each other, that must really help. But I suppose they could have stayed in wakeup copenhagen for 150 a night. It's warmer in Greece though!

Anybody can be emotionally vulnerable
Boundaries/self esteem are not automatically bestowed on the privileged

Sure, but what evidence do you have that they were 'emotionally vulnerable'? They both seemed pretty confident to me. So confident that one of them thought a 'billionaire' was going to marry her after only knowing her for a few months.

@Gardeningcreature

I think we really need to be careful about victim blaming here. One thing that struck me was the fact that he claimed to be in the diamond business, the same as that other scammer who the Serpent was based on. Difference was he actually killed a lot of his victims. The victims then weren’t blamed as much, Is that because they were men? Do we blame pensioners when they give cash to some random bloke who knocks on their door claiming that they can repair their roof? No not really we don’t call them stupid idiots do we? Do we blame women who get pregnant to some random man, then sit crying when he pisses off? Especially when they know he already has kids and had done it before. I think these women are getting a head time because they are young, attractive women. I’m obviously not his target market but I’ve never been the target market for any bloke to hook up with /have kids with / look after their kids/ let some strange bloke fix my roof etc etc I’m quite critical and don’t suffer fools. I’ll say it again if one of my dcs showed pictures of some twat looking like he did or some women half naked I would tell them exactly what I thought and it would not be positive. An ex friend of mine met a bloke. The first thing that came out of her mouth when she told me was “He is a millionaire.” I just looked at her in dismay. Needless to say the relationship was a disaster.

I would think a woman getting pregnant to some random man is a fool, yeah.

It's like the email from the Nigerian Prince saying "if you send me 2000 pounds I can send you 245583e84 pounds" shit. It's greed and stupidness. They're lucky they only lost money some of them, they put themselves in incredibly dangerous situations. Who the fuck gets on a strangers "private" plane?!

I was in my early twenties and I was this stupid woman. It was a drip feed of asks and it was always supposed to be “til the end of the week”. There was always a massively plausible reason why the money didnt come and the lengths he went to to keep up the lies we’re incredible. No where near those kind of levels of debt but still substantial. I’m degree educated and not stupid. I was just naive and in love.

Hindsight is beautiful.

Victim blaming isn’t attractive.

Sure, but what evidence do you have that they were 'emotionally vulnerable'? They both seemed pretty confident to me

I don't think we were watching the same documentary
They "seemed" confident on the surface
You are judging them on a surface level based on how they look & presented themselves
The same way people judged the Tinder Swindler on appearances
It was quite clearly obvious that the first girl was deeply insecure
Could you not feel the sheer desperation radiating off her?
It's entirely possible to be in a comfortable middle class social circle & believe a rich man has fallen for you
Fairytales teach little girls a prince will come & sweep you off your feet
It happened to Kate Middleton didn't it
Fairytales can happen
It's entirely possible to be privileged but have deep insecurities & vulnerability
Have you considered watching the Paris Hilton documentary?

Mary met Prince Frederick at a pub in Sydney
Every girl in Sydney was hoping to meet their Prince Charming out on the town after that
Back in the days before Tinder
Such simple times

Week by week there are stories in the press about women who have been "duped" by men on dating sites. Common theme is serving in US Forces, widowed, children. Stuck out in Iraq awaiting his $500,000 bonus, bank accounts locked etc etc.....could you send me some money until blah blah blah. First job, do a Google revers image to see who his picture really belongs to.....if its not him, block and report.
It's probably some scammer in a council flat in South London or Birmingham.

DONT DO IT!!!!

@Youaremypenguin

Harsh

Have you looked on the women's Instagram profiles?

They look like they are living it large!

Women stay with men for years who beat them black and blue and rape them repeatedly we don't blame them do we? (Or we shouldn't). Why are we blaming these women?

I agree with you mainly OP. Apart from Ayleen though I do feel she is genuine.... the other women got themselves in that situation from sheer greed as well as being naive. I mean did Cecile not consider her safety at the start?

The 2 women seem all too familiar with mixing in those types of circles.

It was quite clearly obvious that the first girl was deeply insecure
Could you not feel the sheer desperation radiating off her?

Desperation for what?

She was an attractive, intelligent woman living in London. I doubt she'd have too much trouble finding a man. But she didn't want just any man. She wanted a rich man to 'sweep her off her feet'. She thought she'd found that with 'Simon' and was prepared to do anything to maintain the 'relationship', including giving fraudulent info to banks in order to obtain a loan.

I don't see that she was suffering from some crippling lack of that nebulous concept of 'self esteem'. I saw a woman who thought she had it made and was desperate to guard her 'prize'. As others have said, she probably wouldn't have gone to those lengths to get a loan for a boyfriend who'd just lost his job as an Amazon delivery guy and needed a few quid to tide him over for a few weeks. She somehow wouldn't have been so 'vulnerable' to that sort of man.

Fairytales teach little girls a prince will come & sweep you off your feet
It happened to Kate Middleton didn't it

Kate Middleton met William at uni and they dated for 10 years before getting married, with at least one break-up along the way. Not exactly a 'fairytale'.

“Please don't blame the women, or the victims, because in effect that's precisely what they are.“

This ^

@SmellyWellyWoo

Women stay with men for years who beat them black and blue and rape them repeatedly we don't blame them do we? (Or we shouldn't). Why are we blaming these women?

Often they're very scared of their partner. Bit of a different situation.

I think it’s very easy to label these wine greedy, but I think even if there’s not money involved it’s very easy to get swept up in the early days of a relationship particularly if the man is showering you with attention and saying the all the right things.
I think also, what you don’t see is the time pressure these women are under-it’s a typical tactic of scammers to use your adrenaline to make bold decisions that you wouldn’t normally make given time or if you are sitting relaxed at home.
Also let’s not forget Amex had a case of evidence about this man from an international internal investigation, which if they had passed to the police may have prevented this man from operating. Instead they know that there is someone using aliases to repeatedly defraud them, but they expect the women to pay them back.