Tinder Swindler - victims should accept some accountability

[sometimespeopletakethepiss]

I can completely understand how these ladies could have fell for this guy BUT what I don't understand is the lack of accountability for their poor judgement.

In my life I would never, ever lend money to anyone unless it is money I could afford to lose - and if I did I feel like I'd have to own it as my own poor judgement.

AIBU to think the ladies should repay the money themselves or declare bankruptcy, not setup a 'go fund me' page and take it as a lesson learned?

They were vulnerable in that they were looking for love with a suitable man. There is pressure on women to get this right. I felt it and ended up not swindled per se but it cost me.

I ended up 100% responsible for two children when I left. I ended up with 0% of the freedom he enjoyed.

I take responsibility while still recognising that at the time i was vulnerable, due partly to pressures in society for women to marry somebody their f&f won't judge. Women are judged for having children too young, too old, working too hard, not working hard enough, being financially independent and not needing a man, leaving it too late.............. lot of pressures on women and we can all be vulnerable. Women are judged for selling themselves short, over reaching, not looking, looking too hard.

I think if you marry your college boyfriend at 27 then there's a lot you're unaware of tbh.

Another thing women have to contend with is that they have a CLOCK on some very important life decisions.

I always have sympathy for people who have been conned whether the con was financial or romantic.

The idea outrages you for reasons that are to do with you, not them

Well, yes. I mean, I’m an adult and I behave like one. I support myself financially and I accept that I have a responsibility to myself to not make foolish, unwise decisions and not allow myself be blinded by lust or anything else. But I know I’m a flawed person and can like anyone make a stupid decision. But I accept that in that case I need to be the one to fix it or deal with the consequences of it, and I don’t expect or hope random strangers will bail me out.

But I accept that in that case I need to be the one to fix it or deal with the consequences of it, and I don’t expect or hope random strangers will bail me out.

Clearly you are also not the type to help a random stranger out when they're struggling, so I guess that works out.

and yet when you hear of romance scammers getting money out of trusting (usually lonely) women and men who have only met online, is it any different? The common connection is that the victim has had their dream scenario dangled in front of them and then emotionally blackmailed to try and keep it by handing over money (their own or in the form of loans).

Yes, those ladies were a bit short sighted and gullible but they did genuinely believe he as going to be hurt (& possibly their own family) and were prepared to help at literally any cost. I guess they also did not want to believe that he was a total fake.

They have taken accountability though by exposing what he did as a warning to others.

@Hasselhoffsheadband

One of the women sent her passport details to a man she had matched with on Tinder and had never met.

Why? Why would you do that?

Plus he was grim and just his voice made my skin crawl.

He was grim but it's really not uncommon for young and beautiful women to give their passport details to strangers in this way. It happens a lot with Instagram, ig models get DMs from rich guys inviting them to places like Dubai and the women are asked for their passport details in order to buy their flight ticket, they've usually never met them, seems bizarre if you're not part of that lifestyle but it really is a 'thing'!

@Theluggage15

Of course you can blame them! This idea of shouting victim blaming and no word must be said against them is just silly. It’s basically saying that people have zero responsibility for themselves, which is just another type of con, and it often seems to apply to women rather than men.

Absolutely. Add in the word vulnerable too, and then it’s really, really, really not their fault

It’s really infantilising women. Poor little thing, she just wanted to be loved. Sure she didn’t know what she was doing, all she wanted was her happy ever after.

And other women buy it.

@sammylady37

The idea outrages you for reasons that are to do with you, not them

Well, yes. I mean, I’m an adult and I behave like one. I support myself financially and I accept that I have a responsibility to myself to not make foolish, unwise decisions and not allow myself be blinded by lust or anything else. But I know I’m a flawed person and can like anyone make a stupid decision. But I accept that in that case I need to be the one to fix it or deal with the consequences of it, and I don’t expect or hope random strangers will bail me out.

Well, good for you. Virtue is its own reward.

It’s really infantilising women

It's showing a bit of human compassion for flawed humans who did a stupid thing after being suckered by a professional con artist.

@QuirkyTurtle that was my initial thought too. But then I checked their Instagram and saw that they have been hanging out in super expensive restaurants, Cecilia & Pernilla went to Greece together and stayed at a super expensive hotel... So I didn't donate. If I was in soooo much debt, I wouldn't go anywhere and just save up money to pay my debt off 🙄

@QuirkyTurtle

But I accept that in that case I need to be the one to fix it or deal with the consequences of it, and I don’t expect or hope random strangers will bail me out.

Clearly you are also not the type to help a random stranger out when they're struggling, so I guess that works out.

That’s a bit of a stretch from what I said which is that I don’t expect random strangers to pay for my mistakes.

So no, I don’t help random strangers who have made mistakes and expect others to bail them out. But I do help random strangers who through no fault of their own are in a place of misfortune and hardship. Who makes the call on who I support? I do, of course. Yes, it involves judgement. But, we all judge which charitable causes we support and I don’t know anyone who goes around with an open wallet for every hard luck story.

[quote Cayandsimit]@QuirkyTurtle that was my initial thought too. But then I checked their Instagram and saw that they have been hanging out in super expensive restaurants, Cecilia & Pernilla went to Greece together and stayed at a super expensive hotel... So I didn't donate. If I was in soooo much debt, I wouldn't go anywhere and just save up money to pay my debt off 🙄[/quote]
Oh don’t be so harsh! These women are delicate, vulnerable little things, remember? They deserve luxurious holidays while someone else pays their debts! They’re not accountable for what they did! They were vulnerable (but just not vulnerable enough to fall for jobless no-hoper guy)

Living the high life while someone else picks up the tab- they’re still at it

His victims were beautiful, single, privileged women.
They needed to have enough self esteem to believe they could bag a billionaire in the first place. "I deserve this."
They needed to believe in Prince Charming. Most average women have their hearts broken enough by their early twenties to know there is no such thing. They get lied to and cheated on enough times to stop looking for a "prince" and are just waiting for a decent bloke who isn't an absolute rat. Whereas if you have always been treated like a princess through looking like one, you still believe in the fairytale.
Anyone who has had experience of living hand to mouth is going to be precious about giving away 25 quid never mind 250k.
Single mums out of the picture because they aren't going jetting off with a stranger to leave their kids and maybe have a coparent who will kick up a fuss about this new strange man.
Basically you had to believe you deserved a billionaire in the first place and the looks and lifestyle to facilitate that.
I don't think that is justification for what he did, but it makes me slightly grateful for some of the experiences I had in life that screwed my head on a bit more tightly.

[quote Cayandsimit]@QuirkyTurtle that was my initial thought too. But then I checked their Instagram and saw that they have been hanging out in super expensive restaurants, Cecilia & Pernilla went to Greece together and stayed at a super expensive hotel... So I didn't donate. If I was in soooo much debt, I wouldn't go anywhere and just save up money to pay my debt off 🙄[/quote]
I see what you mean and I don't necessarily disagree. But I've never been in crippling debt. I know someone who has and as soon as their situation started getting a bit better, they treated themselves because they'd been living in constant anxiety.

Or maybe these women don't give a shit and are just awful people themselves. I don't know. But I had the disposable income to help and on the off chance that it does actually improve someone's life, it's worth the risk for me.

I don't know if these particular women would. But how many women do we see on here living with and supporting a "cocklodger" who contributes nothing but aggravation to their lives? The Netflix series was an extreme example, but we see women being taken in by love and screwed over every day.

@Tobchette "They needed to believe in Prince Charming. Most average women have their hearts broken enough by their early twenties to know there is no such thing.
......
Anyone who has had experience of living hand to mouth is going to be precious about giving away 25 quid never mind 250k."

This! 🙌 Exactly!

Watched this last night after reading this thread thinking I would be shocked how easily they'd been taken in but he was so plausible - given he'd done this to the tune of around £10m I think he was very good at what he did. Yes they were after a lifestyle but so what, that doesn't make them bad people.

[quote Cayandsimit]@QuirkyTurtle that was my initial thought too. But then I checked their Instagram and saw that they have been hanging out in super expensive restaurants, Cecilia & Pernilla went to Greece together and stayed at a super expensive hotel... So I didn't donate. If I was in soooo much debt, I wouldn't go anywhere and just save up money to pay my debt off 🙄[/quote]
Oh yes but one of them has been questioned about that already and goes 'well you only show the good bits don't you, not the bills raking in, plus I have loads of friends all over the world and I love visiting them'.

Guess her friends live in 5 star hotels..

Anyone who donates is a bit of a sucker to be honest, more money than sense like these 3. But it's their money to waste. These 3 are not in poverty or financial difficulty though and never will be. Amazing that people will donate £92,000 quickly to 3 idiots, but to the actual needy? Hmm..

Well, good for you. Virtue is its own reward

Nice attempt at a little dog there, btw. But I see nothing virtuous in behaving like a sensible, responsible adult and exercising caution in matters of the heart and of finances. It’s just being a responsible adult. Seems that’s too much of an ask for some though, and for those who excuse them 🤷‍♀️

I know it's different strokes for different folks and all that, but if I had come across that bloke on Tinder I would have thought 'urgh, what a bellend' and carried on swiping.

And there was nothing in any of the messages or interactions that even suggested he was very charming or charismatic or funny or anything like that. He seemed really dull and wasn't even that good looking.

They were taken in by the apparent money, that's it. And that massively clouded their judgement (ie. Not thinking about why the son of a billionaire would need 10 grand from a new girlfriend, not thinking about whether it's a great idea to send your passport details to a bloke you have just matched with online). Not saying that that makes them bad people, but this wasn't even 'grooming' in the regular sense.

@sammylady37

Well, good for you. Virtue is its own reward

Nice attempt at a little dog there, btw. But I see nothing virtuous in behaving like a sensible, responsible adult and exercising caution in matters of the heart and of finances. It’s just being a responsible adult. Seems that’s too much of an ask for some though, and for those who excuse them 🤷‍♀️

You wouldn't see it as a dig if you really believed virtue was its own reward, that's the point. You would be secure in your superiority.

If you really believe it's so terrible to do this ask, it should be enough for you that you are too good a person to do such a thing, since you can't point to any victims. Nobody is being hurt by this. Your anger appears to be coming from the fact that they're getting some degree of benefit from it, from people who have chosen to give it, and you don't think they deserve it.

To the op who suggested his time served was so little because of their accountability, he could only be convicted of the crimes committed in Israel which I think were cheque fraud? He hasn’t been prosecuted for the fraud against the women.
He had soooo many victims - the men, the friends, the women - all those others who contacted the press after the story.
I feel for them. I got married young after three months, took out loans, was then a single parent to a baby with £££ debt. He wasn’t presenting as rich, I was just naive. One of them spent an entire Summer partying with him and just assumed he was part of her lifestyle - she was really brave to risk ridicule and be honest about it all.
I feel really sorry for them, they were stupid but in edited highlights we can judge that. We haven’t seen or heard everything.

Pp not op

And there wasnothingin any of the messages or interactions that even suggested he was very charming or charismatic or funny or anything like that. He seemed really dull and wasn't even that good looking.

I thought he was pretty good looking.

My understanding is that it's slim pickings on online dating...

This may have been mentioned but has anyone watched The Puppeteer? I remember when that story broke many years ago and wondered how people could be so monumentally gullible. Even more so than the Tinder Swindler victims.

You wouldn't see it as a dig if you really believed virtue was its own reward, that's the point. You would be secure in your superiority

You’re the one who said virtue was it’s own reward, not me.
As I said, I see nothing virtuous in being a responsible adult, it’s just normal. Not superior. Normal.

But you clearly think your empathy and compassion makes you a better person than me. Maybe it does- I don’t think that’s for either of us to adjudicate on.

And I’m not angry, I’m just gobsmacked at the ongoing failure to take responsibility, willingness to be bankrolled by others and how so many seem to think this is ok.