Part 7.5

[jgw1]

AIBU to still be enjoying falls?

@cakeorwine

Don't you think it is silly to prolong this nonsensical "debate" when there is nothing more to be said

I know what I think is silly on here.

By all means have the last word, if that is what floats your boat.

@cakeorwine

There has never been any formal charge of misleading parliament. It is simply an allegation - a personal opinion, if you like. Johnson has already been accused of misleading parliament over Covid19 contracts - he has not resigned

www.gov.uk/government/publications/ministerial-code

It is of paramount importance that Ministers give accurate and truthful information to Parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister

Exactly: "will be expected to", not "must".

Did anyone read the article in today's Sunday Times about Ben Elliott's Downing Street "appointments unit", funnelling tory donors into public appointments?

We are governed by corrupt grifters. I remember in the 90s reading about Berlusconi's Italy and thinking nah that could never happen here..

Johnson has already been accused of misleading parliament over Covid19 contracts - he has not resigned.

And employment figures.

And crime figures.

And there was the whole proroguing Parliament thing

And the reneging on international treaties thing.

And before that his missteps as foreign secretary.

And he never does these things because he cares about policy, it’s only ever carelessness or Boris Johnson’s own self interest.

I don’t expect him to resign, (he clearly isn’t troubled by a conscience, and it wouldn’t be ‘on brand’), but I do expect his party to finally acknowledge that he is a liability.

Well of course the wording is "expected to resign". No one can force a minister or anyone else to resign. But there is further action that can be taken if a minister refuses to resign.

Presumably that should end “or be sacked”.

BJ will be sacked off by his MPs, his party or the electorate if he doesn’t resign. I hope the latter because that would bring the whole dismal edifice of lies, deception, cakery and economic ruin that is Brexit down with it. I’m not sure what Labour would be able to do about it, but they’d probably at least negotiate in good faith and not sign international agreements they have no intention of adhering to.

We are governed by corrupt grifters. I remember in the 90s reading about Berlusconi's Italy and thinking nah that could never happen here

Absolutely.

That code is fascinating

9.1 When Parliament is in session, the most important
announcements of Government policy should be made in
the first instance, in Parliament.

Timing and form of announcement

9.2 Even when Government announcements are not of major importance their timing may require careful consideration in order to avoid clashes with other Government publications, statements or announcements or with planned Parliamentary business. The Offices of the Leader of the Commons, the Chief Whip and the Prime Minister should be given as long an opportunity as possible to comment on all important announcements.

9.3 Every effort should be made to avoid leaving significant announcements to the last day before a recess.

@BoodyDedalus Once again not what you originally said is it?

Anyone can make an allegation.

I think Bojo misled Parliament over parties, crime and employment figures but unless he is found formally guilty, opinions mean diddly squat.

@ClaudineClare

We are governed by corrupt grifters. I remember in the 90s reading about Berlusconi's Italy and thinking nah that could never happen here

Absolutely.

Actually, would be good if what happened to Berlusconi happened to Bojo.

As with most of our constitutional norms, the Ministerial Code assumes a level of honesty and integrity that sadly no longer prevails.

Like Trump, Johnson will push to the limits. His corruption and lack of integrity knows no bounds.

Exactly: "will be expected to", not "must

Now that will be good at PMQs. Starmer highlighting the Ministerial Code and asking him what "Expected to" means.

@CryingAtTheDiscotheque

Did anyone read the article in today's Sunday Times about Ben Elliott's Downing Street "appointments unit", funnelling tory donors into public appointments?

We are governed by corrupt grifters. I remember in the 90s reading about Berlusconi's Italy and thinking nah that could never happen here..

Cash for peerages goes back to at least the premiership of Lloyd George.

@cakeorwine

Exactly: "will be expected to", not "must

Now that will be good at PMQs. Starmer highlighting the Ministerial Code and asking him what "Expected to" means.

The difficulty is that there is no penalty for any minister who declines to resign. The last time the Commons fined a member was nearly 400 years ago.

And this bit's good

The Seven Principles of Public Life

Selflessness

Holders of public office should act solely in terms of the public interest.

Integrity

Holders of public office must avoid placing themselves under any obligation to people or organisations that might try inappropriately to influence their work. They should not act or take decisions in order to gain financial or other material benefits for themselves, their family, or their friends. They must declare and resolve any interests and relationships.

Objectivity

Holders of public office must act and take decisions impartially, fairly and on merit, using the best evidence and without discrimination or bias.

Accountability

Holders of public office are accountable for their decisions and actions and must submit themselves to whatever scrutiny necessary to ensure this.

Openness

Holders of public office should act and take decisions in an open and
transparent manner. Information should not be withheld from the public unless there are clear and lawful reasons for doing so.

Honesty

Holders of public office should be truthful.

Leadership

Holders of public office should exhibit these principles in their own
behaviour. They should actively promote and robustly support the principles and be willing to challenge poor behaviour wherever it occurs.

Ha! Berlusconi didn't marry Ruby the Heart Stealer did he? Can't quite recall. However, bunga bunga one and all.

Fine words, but did you know that statistically MPs are more likely to have a criminal conviction than the average member of the public?

@BoodyDedalus

Fine words, but did you know that statistically MPs are more likely to have a criminal conviction than the average member of the public?

Have you got a link for that?

Or I suppose you expect me to do my own research?

Looking at the stats

I am able to confirm that as of the 18th September 2017, the number of nominal records on PNC was 12,263,877 of which the number of records containing a criminal record element was 11,166,266. Other records relate to persons either wanted or missing; and/or with
disqualifications and/ or who are Firearm Certificate holders

So 11 million people have a criminal record.

You might be referring to this report

www.channel4.com/news/out-of-order-politicians-who-ended-up-behind-bars

But you are talking about 4 MPs so the Laws of small numbers comes in. And talking about being in jail

Meanwhile...

Cash for peerages goes back to at least the premiership of Lloyd George.

Oh that’s all right then. Because we’ve always had corruption it doesn’t matter.

cakeorwine stop showing off your google skills...

@DuncinToffee

cakeorwine stop showing off your google skills...

I have data analysis skill as well. And a love of More or Less who would be the kind of people to look at such a statement and ask,,,is it true?

Whilst we're on misleading statistics

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00146b6

"Boris Johnson has been ticked off for misleading Parliament on jobs and on crime. He claimed that the number of people in employment has been rising - when it’s been falling. And he made a claim that crime has fallen - when it’s risen. We discuss the truth, and what Parliament can do to defend it."

Trying not to do a Dominic Raab

Rt. Hon Ben Wallace MP@BWallaceMP

having returned from Moscow early on Saturday morning and because we are concerned about the worsening situation in Ukraine i have cancelled a planned long weekend abroad with my family and will be returning.

I know that in my job, I would have to think about holidays if things were about to hit the fan. I am surprised he even mentions that he was cancelling it. But at least he has cancelled it

cakeorwine

I am surprised he even mentions that he was cancelling it.

He’s making a point I suspect. As far as I can make out Wallace is a bit old school. Thankfully there are a few left.