Part 7.5

[jgw1]

AIBU to still be enjoying falls?

I think we all need to bear in mind that we don't want to post anything that will get the thread pulled...

I was one of many who could not understand why Tony Blair did not resign after misleading parliament over weapons of mass destruction. But he didn't, and thus a precedent was set

If you want to start a thread about that, it would be an interesting topic. But the focus of this thread is Johnson's downfall.

@ClaudineClare

Boody why are you so obsessed with being provided with evidence of statements that were posted before you joined MN?

Anyway, if you do want to search, doing it via Google is often easier than using MN's creaky old search function.

Boody why are you so obsessed with being provided with evidence of statements that were posted before you joined MN?

(1) Because the original claim seems highly unlikely.
(2) Because I have not been able to find any of claimed posts.
(3) Because the poster who made the claim has not been able to identify such posts, but instead of apologising just prevaricates.

I cannot see any point in continuing the matter, as nobody has identified the posts concerned.

@ClaudineClare

I was one of many who could not understand why Tony Blair did not resign after misleading parliament over weapons of mass destruction. But he didn't, and thus a precedent was set

If you want to start a thread about that, it would be an interesting topic. But the focus of this thread is Johnson's downfall.

Oh, so misleading parliament is no longer an issue. I see.

Let's move on, then.

@AuldAlliance

I did the homework. But I asked for it to be pulled, as it was akin to being goaded in TAAT activity, and we all know what happens then... It took me about 3 mins, TBH. It involved the English word for gâteau and the name of one or two BJ fans.

Why not PM me with the information you don't want published?

If Johnson was found to have lied in his police questionnaire, would that be a criminal offence? Perjury?

Brendan Lewis

Sophie Raworth - So your loyalty to the Prime Minister will go ahead of whether or not he has broken the law?

Brandon Lewis - My loyalty goes to the Prime Minister & the people of United Kingdom.

(2) Because I have not been able to find any of claimed posts

So you've looked in detail at all 6000 posts then.

What do you think of the party / gathering / not a party / what makes a party anyway / how long do you have to be at a party for it to be a party discussions?

@DuncinToffee

Brendan Lewis

Sophie Raworth - So your loyalty to the Prime Minister will go ahead of whether or not he has broken the law?

Brandon Lewis - My loyalty goes to the Prime Minister & the people of United Kingdom.

His loyalties are divided then...

@ClaudineClare

If Johnson was found to have lied in his police questionnaire, would that be a criminal offence? Perjury?

Probably not in itself, but a false statement could be used in evidence against a person if he or she was charged with e.g. wasting police time or obstructing an investigation.

@ClaudineClare

If Johnson was found to have lied in his police questionnaire, would that be a criminal offence? Perjury?

I was wondering that. The lie has to be under oath to qualify. Without knowing the wording of the questionnaire it's difficult to tell. I imagine he's quite a tricky client to advise.

Loyalties

Brandon Lewis "Yes, this [new legislation] does break international law in a very specific and limited way,"

It isn't clear whether lying in the questionnaire would be perjury, because the status of the questionnaire remains obscure.

I agree that misleading parliament is the most important issue - but committing a criminal offence, particularly in the circs of the pandemic, is also pretty significant.

Johnson's supporters apparently believe there is a fair chance that he will be issued with an FPN. This explains the ongoing attempts to downplay the significance of the offence, and to argue that Johnson's "democratic mandate" (a constitutionally illiterate assertion) outweighs it

Bindmans did a good blog on the "just a parking ticket" argument www.bindmans.com/insight/blog/the-downing-street-parties-will-the-prime-minister-just-get-a-parking-ticket

@DuncinToffee

Loyalties

Brandon Lewis "Yes, this [new legislation] does break international law in a very specific and limited way,"

Who polices international law?

Remember all the furore over Professor Neil Ferguson because he had an affair during lockdown.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/06/neil-ferguson-right-to-resign-for-breaking-lockdown-rules-says-minister-coronavirus

The UK health secretary has said he would back the police in any action they wish to take over Prof Neil Ferguson breaking social distancing rules by having a woman visit him at his home.

Ferguson, an epidemiologist who has helped shape the government’s response to coronavirus and who advocated the lockdown, made the right decision to resign, Matt Hancock told Sky News.

Hancock said: “I back the police here. They will take their decisions independently from ministers, that’s quite right, it’s always been like that.

“Even though I have got a clear answer to what I think, as a minister the way we run the police is that they make decisions like this. So I give them their space to make that decision, but I think he took the right decision to resign.”

I wonder what Boris Johnson had to say over the matter?

From David Allen Green: twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1492488172793737217

PM:

There were no parties

I was shocked that there were parties

Any parties complied with the rules

Nobody told me parties were against the rules

I was surprised by cake

Let’s wait for Sue Gray

Let’s wait for the Met

Even if fined, I won’t resign

“Will of the People!”

More from that article.

Earlier, another senior minister urged people to stick unequivocally to the coronavirus lockdown.

James Brokenshire, a Home Office minister, said Ferguson had made an “error of judgment” and was right to resign. He stressed that the government’s physical distancing guidelines must be followed by law and were “there to protect us all”.

Scotland Yard said later no further action would be taken against Ferguson. A Met police statement criticised his behaviour as “plainly disappointing” but ruled out issuing a fine because he “has taken responsibility” after resigning. The police declined to say whether officers had spoken directly to Ferguson

Johnson is going to Scotland on a 'levelling up' tour this week.

'I can't justify my defence of De Spaffle so instead I'm going to derail the thread with endless, tedious demands to be spoonfed information I can't be arsed to look for myself.'

Ferguson, an epidemiologist who has helped shape the government’s response to coronavirus and who advocated the lockdown, made the right decision to resign, Matt Hancock told Sky News.

Although he didn't actually resign from his job at Imperial and, it turned out, neither did he resign as a government adviser since he has remained a member of NERVTAG and has continued to contribute to the advisory committee SPI-M.

TBF, it is handy having a link to previous threads. It's interesting to see people's thoughts and how they adapt and try to derail as more information comes out.

It would be great to extract text from these threads and look for patterns.

I do wonder if De Spaffle's fangirls have any integrity themselves. Is there a point where they draw the line or can he literally do whatever he wants and they'd still be cheering him on. Lying to the Queen, not a problem. Lying to Parliament, not a problem. Lying to the public, not a problem. Partying while everyone else was in lockdown, not a problem. Inciting violence against opposition MPs, not a problem.

Where is your line? What would he need to do for you to say 'enough'?

Although he didn't actually resign from his job at Imperial and, it turned out, neither did he resign as a government adviser since he has remained a member of NERVTAG and has continued to contribute to the advisory committee SPI-M

Matt Hancock's words and other Minister's words will come back (and indeed did come back) to haunt them.

It's cognitive dissonance. People can hold 2 contradictory views at the same time

@ClaudineClare

If Johnson was found to have lied in his police questionnaire, would that be a criminal offence? Perjury?

I'm keeping everything crossed that some of the questionnaires come back saying he told them to delete the photos/whatsapp messages about the parties. A nice long prison sentence for perverting the course of justice would draw a neat line over the whole affair.