To not want DF to bring her baby everywhere?

[DijfunvKd]

My friend lives a few hours away from me, and visits the area I live in fairly often. She had her first baby last year. When she visits, it's always with her DH.

Now she's had the baby, she will contact me asking if I want to meet her and the baby for coffee or lunch, and I always go. She will also ask if I want to go for a drink or nice meal one evening, and so I find a date on which I'm available. However, I then get messages to say she'll have to bring the baby because she'll need breastfeeding, or there is no one else to look after her etc. So we end up having a quick coke in a child friendly pub, or they both come to my house.

I don't mind the lunches with the baby, and do the expected 'isn't she cute?' (she is), 'is she eating/sleeping well?' small talk, but I find it extremely boring and do it to be polite and supportive. I don't want to repeat the same conversation on the evening.

DF will always say 'baby will be no trouble while we're out, she's very placid', but it inevitably becomes DF talking to the baby while I sit and make the expected cooing noises, and then she needs to leave early to get the baby to bed. If she had no option but to bring the baby to socialise then that would be one thing, but her DH goes off for hours with his friends, child free, well into the night, and I can't understand why she can't do that. If it was because she simply didn't want to leave the baby, then why ask if I'd like to go for a drink or nice meal in the evening?

During her pregnancy she was claiming nothing would change, that she'd still be going on holiday with friends and leaving the baby with her dad, and I thought she was deluding herself with that, but now that the baby has arrived she's swung hard the other way, which is her prerogative, but AIBU to think that her expectation that she brings the baby every time we see each other is ridiculous?

For information, the same happens when I visit her too, although that is less often because she visits friends and family where I live and stays with her parents.

OP "just can't understand why she asks me to do things that are not baby friendly then want to bring the baby"

Agree. It's not like you are refusing to do baby friendly things.

I even know one person who tried to argue about her baby not being allowed in a trendy bar. Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if that rule has changed now.

@UnsuitableHat

Perhaps you need to accept that, for now, meet ups will only be to child friendly places. Don’t try and arrange childfree nights out. It won’t be that way forever. Why do you find the lunch meet ups ‘extremely boring’?

I don't arrange them. She does, and then changes the plans.

The lunches (and coffees, and evening juices) are extremely boring because it consists of DF talking to and about the baby. Nothing else. Just that. There are only so many times you can tell a baby it's cute.

Yanbu, however you friend isn't bu either.
You both just currently have different priorities, it's that simple. Her child comes first, and sometimes you make plans and then have to change them when you have due to childcare/feeding options etc.
If this bothers you so much, you have every right to just not arrange meals outside of lunches you're happy doing with her and the child for now.

Initially I thought you were BU, but when I read this:

It annoys me clearly my diary for the night out that she says she wants, which inevitably turns into a juice at a Wetherspoons for a hour. If that's what she wants to do, then just say that, so I know I have the rest of the night free. It's so frustrating
I was totally on your side.

She's basically planning things that are totally unrealistic for her. If she really can't leave the baby for the night, then why on earth is she making arrangements with you for a night out? It's bizarre, and it's wasting your time.

She’s probably hoping that she can leave the baby but then for a number of possible reasons she can’t. Be patient. Baby has to come first. You need to talk to her about this in a kind way. Being a new mum is hard. I understand your frustration but please be kind and patient. Until you have a baby its impossible to know what it will be like.

@DijfunvKd

I couldn't and didn't want to leave him for hours.

So presumably you didn't make plans involving leaving him for hours?

I think you just need to accept if you meet her for the next while then it will be with the baby. The baby won't be a baby forever and hopefully as he gets older your friend will be more available and find it easier to leave him.

I can fully accept that for however long our plans will be lunch or coffee, or even the park or whatever. But planning nights out which morph last minute into staring at someone talking to a baby for an hour is something I just don't want to do.

YANBU, I've been in your shoes and found it incredibly frustrating to suddenly be a third wheel in a friendship of two. I get that people's lives change immeasurably when they have children, I get that babies are a 24/7 commitment, I get that they're all encompassing and that parents may not feel comfortable leaving them with partners.

But when you find yourself staring into space while the person you're there to see is seemingly oblivious to your presence because they're coo-ing over their child and you can go the entire time without them asking even how you are or you know they're not even half-listening to what you're saying...at best it's annoying and at worst it's hurtful and lonely. Because much as you know how much their life has changed, that they can't consider how you might feel or make the teeny tiniest bit of effort well, it bloody well sucks.

The friendships of mine that have survived children have been those who've still made the effort and have appreciated that I've done the same too (in terms of child-friendly venues, lunches rather than dinner and so on).

I think you’re entirely reasonable @DijfunvKd. But then I’m the heartless bitch of a mother who left her five month old baby with her mum for three days while she went to a festival, so what do I know? 🤷‍♀️

The intention is always that the baby won't be there. The places we (at her suggestion) arrange to go to are not places any mother would take a baby to, and especially not on an evening. It's always at the last minute that the plans change.

Have you asked her what’s going on? If she is planning on attending without the baby then I would be concerned something else is going on behind the scenes and it might not just be as straight forward as her fobbing your plans off. Maybe her partner not pulling his weight?

Yes, exactly this. I don't think I've spoken one single word to her about me or my life since the baby was born, because every single time I see her, she's ignoring me and looking at the baby. Totally fine even if very annoying and boring at first, but six months later, even if the baby is happy and content and just sitting nicely in her pram, if I begin talking then DF will stare at the baby and cut across me with 'aren't you cute?? You are! Are you happy sitting there?' and then I feel I have to join in with the admiration.

Oh GOD I had so many friends morph into this person. There’s literally no point in you being there, except as an admirer. You end up feeling like a courtier fawning over a Queen.

I’d either start turning down the invites or say you’ll catch up with her again when baby is a bit older as you’re not actually managing to do any catching up at the moment!

I really feel for you - this stuff is so so so tedious and women are expected to enjoy it cos we’re women. Men don’t have to put up with this shite!

I think bringing the baby is sort of fine, but making the day all about the baby isn't. If she's happy to breastfeed while keeping up a proper conversation with you and asking questions about your life then I wouldn't object. If the baby is the only thing she's interested in I understand why you'd want to give her a wide berth for a while.

YANBU
I have had 2 breastfed babies (one of whom was an ultra-Velcro baby) and as long as friends were realistic about the daytime, I was always respectful of their time too!

If I book out my time for an afternoon or an evening, organise with DH to do the same so he can have the kids, etc etc then I expect people not to bring their kids either. And people without kids also have responsibilities and restraints on their time, so a pre-planned adult night out in the pub or a restaurant suddenly changing into a quick drink and a cop over the baby isn’t on (more than once in an emergency!)

That said, 6 months is very young. Give her a few more months and then plan an evening together and be clear. I am always very 🤔 about all these dads who don’t automatically have their babies with them at every event.

You sound considerate - be patient but no, YANBU.

It will get better once the baby is a year old and fully on solids. Although I breastfed over a year it’s hard to leave a breastfed baby if they won’t take a bottle. Maybe suggest the lunch dates for a another few months.

Other issues may be separation anxiety. Your friend may be keen to still have her old life but be really torn. I suffered with this and found it really hard to leave my baby. Could you suggest going for a walk for 30mins baby free then up the time slowly. They might need some help adjusting.

‘if I begin talking then DF will stare at the baby and cut across me with 'aren't you cute?? You are! Are you happy sitting there?'

Sounds bloody dreadful @DijfunvKd, I love my kids dearly and would never be so rude or self absorbed. One doesn’t have to become a graceless, child obsessed bore when they become a parent, but it does seem to happen to some. I’d start putting a bit of distance between you and looking up friends who give a shit about your life ❤️

She's bf and very young so too difficult to leave I guess. I found coffees, dinners , lunches, emmmm chatting died a death once my dcs were mobile..
Mine were all v physical so yes.. no chance theyd sit in a buggy for 5 mind
or highchair. I tended to meet people without baby and definitly not with a toddler so it will prob happen soon enough op!

@Blossomtoes

I think you’re entirely reasonable *@DijfunvKd*. But then I’m the heartless bitch of a mother who left her five month old baby with her mum for three days while she went to a festival, so what do I know? 🤷‍♀️

Ha! Left mine with his father at 6 months whilst I did the same. Freezer full of breastmilk and a competent parent. OP is just weary of the fail between plan and execution. Why doesn’t the mother stick to plans that involve her baby? Can’t do anything about the tedious, endless conversations though, they’ll just segue into monologues on the DC’s bodily functions and potty/dummy/food fads as the years roll by.

@Somethingsnappy you express and bottle feed. I can't believe any mother gets to 6 months without being away from her baby at all. By that age surely most mothers are preparing to get back to work.

@Millionairesshortbreadshort

She’s probably hoping that she can leave the baby but then for a number of possible reasons she can’t. Be patient. Baby has to come first. You need to talk to her about this in a kind way. Being a new mum is hard. I understand your frustration but please be kind and patient. Until you have a baby its impossible to know what it will be like.

See I don't think that's right. I've had two breastfed babies myself but not a partial lobotomy. Dicking someone around repeatedly (which is happening here) is never ok. If the OP's friend would just admit to herself and the OP: 'this is shit, trying to meet is not working out now, let's try do this properly in a few months time' that would be totally different. But she seems completely oblivious and rude, I think the OP has been very patient actually.

When DD was 6 -8 months she still breastfed every 2/3 hours as her weaning was awful due to numerous allergies. It was bloody hard work.

Also, emotionally, I definitely wasn't ready to leave her for a full night out at 6m even though DH did everything equal bar breastfeeding and Mat leave.

From about 12 months evenings and nights out were much easier as she ate much better and slept well.

Maybe her home life isn't as good as you think, especially if her DH doesn't pull his weight and leaves her to do childcare while he's off with mates. Maybe she's not feeling right emotionally but too scared or embarrassed to say.

As a friend, all you can do is support her if you feel able to and wait a little while as the baby won't be a baby forever, but she could be your friend long term if you are willing to compromise during what is actually a very hard time in a parents life (0-12 months especially)
I have friends who have done that for me, worked around my schedule with DD when she was younger and took my lead, and I am eternally grateful and now I can do nice eves out and celebrate events properly and it's all back to normal.

I don't think I've spoken one single word to her about me or my life since the baby was born, because every single time I see her, she's ignoring me and looking at the baby. Totally fine even if very annoying and boring at first, but six months later, even if the baby is happy and content and just sitting nicely in her pram, if I begin talking then DF will stare at the baby and cut across me with 'aren't you cute?? You are! Are you happy sitting there?' and then I feel I have to join in with the admiration.

Oh jeeze, I remember this with one or two of my friends. I used to sit wondering why on earth I was there. It's awful. There was literally no actual conversation because every second sentence would be interrupted by quite unnecessary baby interaction. And after a few months I realised that while I knew about every burp and broken night, if I asked my friends a single simple question about my life over the same few months, they would have just sat there, mouth agape, with not a clue.

I was the last of my close friends to have a baby, and it was something that I learned from and really worked hard not to do to other people. Yes, my world became my baby, but that didn't mean that I couldn't show interest in other people's lives too.

Well, normal-ish as I do still have a child and responsibilities and always will! But life is much more free and easy again than when she was 0-12m

I have to say that I don’t see this getting better either. The friends I had that morphed into this sort of person were the ones who thought their kids were miraculous and unique at every age. The cooing in the pushchair became singsonging to the toddler about everything in the cafe became monologuing about their reading/toileting/early signs of genius etc. Or they’d have another baby and there’d be cooing AND singsonging and monologuing…

I didn’t realise until now how much spending almost a decade in the company of this had annoyed me.

It's not easy to bd apart from baby in the 1st year or so for some, breastfeeding makes it harder if they are not keen on bottles. You just need to be patient, she will be ready for a night off from being mum eventually.

Our baby was born in Aug too, she comes to most things with me (even to my smear test). I wouldn't plan any outings with friends solo yet because I'd struggle with separation anxiety, I've been the same with all of our kids.

I have a 7 month old breastfed baby. She's very clingy, much more so than my first. It would be very hard to leave her for more than a couple of hours at the moment, even with her dad, and especially in the evening, when she tends to be a bit cranky. I think you have to expect her to bring the baby along with her on coffee meetups for the first year - I think it's difficult to truly understand if you don't have a baby, but I do understand it's frustrating. I don't really understand why she's trying to take the baby out to the pub in the evening, that just sounds mad and can't be enjoyable for anyone. Maybe she's struggling to come to terms with the fact that her life has changed? She wants to keep going out in the evenings, but realistically you just can't for a little while. Give it time and just try to be a bit more understanding and supportive OP.

I'm on the fence.
My twins were BF and at six months there would have been zero chance of me leaving them behind to meet a friend. However I wouldn't have arranged meetings on an an evening because I'd have known it wasn't realistic.