To not want DF to bring her baby everywhere?

[DijfunvKd]

My friend lives a few hours away from me, and visits the area I live in fairly often. She had her first baby last year. When she visits, it's always with her DH.

Now she's had the baby, she will contact me asking if I want to meet her and the baby for coffee or lunch, and I always go. She will also ask if I want to go for a drink or nice meal one evening, and so I find a date on which I'm available. However, I then get messages to say she'll have to bring the baby because she'll need breastfeeding, or there is no one else to look after her etc. So we end up having a quick coke in a child friendly pub, or they both come to my house.

I don't mind the lunches with the baby, and do the expected 'isn't she cute?' (she is), 'is she eating/sleeping well?' small talk, but I find it extremely boring and do it to be polite and supportive. I don't want to repeat the same conversation on the evening.

DF will always say 'baby will be no trouble while we're out, she's very placid', but it inevitably becomes DF talking to the baby while I sit and make the expected cooing noises, and then she needs to leave early to get the baby to bed. If she had no option but to bring the baby to socialise then that would be one thing, but her DH goes off for hours with his friends, child free, well into the night, and I can't understand why she can't do that. If it was because she simply didn't want to leave the baby, then why ask if I'd like to go for a drink or nice meal in the evening?

During her pregnancy she was claiming nothing would change, that she'd still be going on holiday with friends and leaving the baby with her dad, and I thought she was deluding herself with that, but now that the baby has arrived she's swung hard the other way, which is her prerogative, but AIBU to think that her expectation that she brings the baby every time we see each other is ridiculous?

For information, the same happens when I visit her too, although that is less often because she visits friends and family where I live and stays with her parents.

@use257

I wouldn't be your friend anymore if I was her. Life's too short

Why not? OP is doing everything her friend wants. She's fitting in with the constant change of plans, she's listening to every detail of her friend's life, she's cooing over the baby, and friend isn't having to do a single thing in return. She's not even asked a single thing about OP's life, nor listened when OP has tried to move the conversation on.

OP is basically being the perfect friend, while getting absolutely nothing out of it at all.

YANBU

She doesn’t want to leave the baby. Her prerogative but she needs to be honest and stop messing you about. I’d give her a hard no on the Wetherspoons with the baby and suggest rescheduling for a time her husband isn’t going out.

@TrippinEdBalls

YANBU but if I was her and saw this thread and knew how you really felt, I'd not want to meet up with you at all. I struggle to believe you could have had children yourself if you really find her child this dull and boring and feel you don't really care about the child at all. That's a really weird perspective to have if you have had children yourself, and actually like this woman. It sounds like neither of those things are true.

I have two children and think the evening that the OP describes with her friend sounds unbearable and I wouldn't be doing it twice!

Yep, I also have 2 children and think the same as you!

@GettingThemFromHereToThere

YABU. Unfortunately it's one of those things that you can't really judge on until you have a baby.

The fact she sees you regularly despite living hours away should be enough. If you put pressure on her, she is likely to stop wanting to see you.

Also, I don't understand why having the baby there makes a difference to what conversations you have. Until they reach toddler hood and are watching around etc it's quite easy to take a baby out and still have decent adult conversation.

Have you actually read all the OP’s posts?

I don't think you explicitly said in your OP that she made plans assuming she wouldn't be bringing the baby and then changed them when she did have to bring the baby after all. So I said you were being unreasonable. If the baby is breastfed she probably can't leave it to go out for the evening (I certainly couldn't with mine), so she brings it with her so that she can spend the evening with you. You expecting her to leave her baby at home is very unreasonable. There's no reason you can't have a nice evening with dinner and drinks when she brings her baby with her.

However, if she does in fact make baby-free plans with you and then changes them, I can see why that could be annoying.

@WheelieBinPrincess

This is what it’s like when I meet my friend and her toddler, for a ‘catch up’.

Me: lovely to see you, I feel like-

Df: STOP IT! STOP IT! Take your coat off NO NOT ON THE FLOOR yes Wheelie, I know, I feel so out of touch with everyone these KIND HANDS KIND HANDS

Me: Shall we get a cake, we can share a-

Df: DO YOU NEED THE TOILET? You do. Yes you do. Mummy will take you to the toilet sorry Wheelie what were you saying, how’s the situation with NOW! WE ARE GOING TO THE TOILET NOW

Me: well yeah, all a bit of a mess really, I-

Df: NO! THAT’S NOT YOURS!! Where’s your Ella’s Kitchen? PEAR!!! NO IT’S PEAR
sorry Wheelie do you know what he’s a nightmare today so I’m going to shoot off, thanks for the catch up though so lovely to see you COAT ON COAT ON

And I love her but Christ alive, it’s totally wearing. Some people just don’t want get it.

Yep, absolutely. It is so wearing.

@GettingThemFromHereToThere

YABU. Unfortunately it's one of those things that you can't really judge on until you have a baby.

The fact she sees you regularly despite living hours away should be enough. If you put pressure on her, she is likely to stop wanting to see you.

Also, I don't understand why having the baby there makes a difference to what conversations you have. Until they reach toddler hood and are watching around etc it's quite easy to take a baby out and still have decent adult conversation.

You have no idea whether the OP has children herself or not. How presumptuous. You're also just plain wrong as well btw, I and many other who have have said we have children agree with the OP

I'm still not sure why the halfway house of takeaway and drinks at hers isn't a possibility? Baby will probably sleep through most of it. Maybe she'll relax and you can get to the bottom of the issue. Plus you can still have a fun evening.

Yep. It’s internalised misogyny I think, pitting women against women.
Why? I used to say clueless things about parenthood. Older people (men too) would laugh and tell me I'd see when I had kids. I used to find it a bit patronising but when I had kids I realised they were right. You can have a good idea about parenthood but you can't really know until you have them. While OP is not unreasonable to expect a night out alone with her friend, her comments show she doesn't have kids or they've long since grown and she's forgotten.

She is a baby bore I am afraid. Thinks the world revolves around her and the baby. Why would you make arrangements and then change them at the last moment.

And yes, I do have children.

When you are making the plans and she asks if you’re free, I would reply-‘lovely, are we doing a lunchtime thing with the baby or a baby-free evening out?’ and clarify at that point. I wouldn’t be planning an evening in a pub if she was bringing the baby and if she backtracks at a later date, I’d suggest cancelling and doing something more appropriate

@LookItsMeAgain

I'm sorry *@Mollysocks* - I'm really laughing at that post! Those green poos.

I'm picturing the scene between your friends and those of @WheelieBinPrincess if they should ever meet up! Hours would be spent chatting yet nothing would ever be discussed

Haha yes I can imagine. A lot of words and no one being able to finish a sentence.

TBF green poos are kind of funny I suppose, but not sure if I’m more annoyed at being interrupted or just not included in the ‘in jokes’ parents have…

[quote LookItsMeAgain]@DijfunvKd - You posted this:
'DB is going to have to come with me tonight. Is that okay? Otherwise I can only stay an hour'
And your reply should be "Oh, that's a shame, I really wanted to just catch up with you.

'You can't take a baby to x?'

'Yeah I know! I'll cancel the booking. Do you fancy going to [local Wetherspoons] instead? DB is never any bother there. Or I could come to yours?'
and your reply should be "No, I wanted to go out to X with you. Staying in doesn't suit as I've been at work all week and need to get out for a bit

'Is DH not looking after her? I thought he was?'
'Yeah he was but Rob text him to say the lads are going [to city drinking] ( which we were meant to be doing ) and I've told him to go. He's been at work all week and it's just as easy for me to take DB with me so no point in him missing a night out'.
*and your reply should be "Well, why is it ok for you to miss a night out but not your DH?" or "Ah well, that's a shame. Another night out for us girls missed. I will contact Mary or Jane or Sarah and see if they want to go out instead."
See what she says to that sort of a reply to her comments.

You are not being unreasonable but I'd try and deflect and agree to meet her during the day but night times are for adults only (for the moment). You're allowed to have girls nights out sans baby.[/quote]
Honestly, in reality this is how it would go -

DB is going to have to come with me tonight. Is that okay? Otherwise I can only stay an hour'
And your reply should be "Oh, that's a shame, I really wanted to just catch up with you.

'Oh well you still can! DB is no bother, you won't notice her.

'You can't take a baby to x?'

'Yeah I know! I'll cancel the booking. Do you fancy going to [local Wetherspoons] instead? DB is never any bother there. Or I could come to yours?'
and your reply should be "No, I wanted to go out to X with you. Staying in doesn't suit as I've been at work all week and need to get out for a bit

Okay then, Wetherspoons it is. Or we could go to the Hungry Horse?

'Is DH not looking after her? I thought he was?'
'Yeah he was but Rob text him to say the lads are going [to city drinking] ( which we were meant to be doing ) and I've told him to go. He's been at work all week and it's just as easy for me to take DB with me so no point in him missing a night out'.
and your reply should be "Well, why is it ok for you to miss a night out but not your DH?"

Because DH won't want to take the baby out with so many of them, but it doesn't make any difference if I take her because she's so good, so it makes sense for me to take her.

or "Ah well, that's a shame. Another night out for us girls missed. I will contact Mary or Jane or Sarah and see if they want to go out instead."

Yes, this is the only one which would work.

@WheelieBinPrincess

This is what it’s like when I meet my friend and her toddler, for a ‘catch up’.

Me: lovely to see you, I feel like-

Df: STOP IT! STOP IT! Take your coat off NO NOT ON THE FLOOR yes Wheelie, I know, I feel so out of touch with everyone these KIND HANDS KIND HANDS

Me: Shall we get a cake, we can share a-

Df: DO YOU NEED THE TOILET? You do. Yes you do. Mummy will take you to the toilet sorry Wheelie what were you saying, how’s the situation with NOW! WE ARE GOING TO THE TOILET NOW

Me: well yeah, all a bit of a mess really, I-

Df: NO! THAT’S NOT YOURS!! Where’s your Ella’s Kitchen? PEAR!!! NO IT’S PEAR
sorry Wheelie do you know what he’s a nightmare today so I’m going to shoot off, thanks for the catch up though so lovely to see you COAT ON COAT ON

And I love her but Christ alive, it’s totally wearing. Some people just don’t want get it.

Sounds like you get nothing from the meeting, arrange a child free night out instead?

Could you reply something along the lines of “oh, it’s just the last 2/5/10 times we’ve arranged to meet up, DH has pulled out of looking after DB. Don’t you think it’s his turn?”

@DonnyBurrito

YANBU but if I was her and saw this thread and knew how you really felt, I'd not want to meet up with you at all. I struggle to believe you could have had children yourself if you really find her child this dull and boring and feel you don't really care about the child at all. That's a really weird perspective to have if you have had children yourself, and actually like this woman. It sounds like neither of those things are true.

Why can't you go out after you have some baby friendly time with her? I highly doubt she's staying out past 8pm with a 6 month old. Go out after? Surely at least one of all the invites you had to decline for her would still be a possibility last minute?

You genuinely believe that all women with children find other people's children interesting, and all women who aren't mothers don't? You are wrong.

I wonder if you're someone who believes that everyone (apparently with kids) finds your child interesting? They don't. Some may take interest and care about your child, but even they won't find it interesting to talk about your child constantly.

I also suspect you aren't a great friend, if you're quite happy to say ' Hi Sue. I've already got plans on Friday night but why don't you get dressed up and head to the bar for 8, and if my other plans end early I'll see you there?' or 'Hi Michael. I'd love to go to the theatre but I have other plans. Why don't you buy the tickets though, and if my plans change last minute I'll come along?'

You can't treat people like that. Their time is as valuable as yours.

OP, I can understand your DF not wanting to leave a six month old breastfeeding baby (I didn’t), but I can also understand you being frustrated that she makes arrangements to see you in the evening and then changes them for the worse.

If I was in your situation I might stick to seeing her in the daytime and wait for the baby to get older, when it will be easier for DF to get out on her own. I agree with babyjellyfish about being straight with her, unless that’s just not the way you two do things.

If this is a good friendship, it’s probably worth putting up with the way things are at the moment and keeping the friendship.

You need to make a stand now. Tell her you’re sorry she can’t make tonight, hopefully you’ll be able to arrange a proper girls night out soon when her DH can look after baby.

Be pointed about it. Don’t just settle yet again to meet her at Wetherspoons - you want a proper night out.

I agree with you OP. It's frustrating because, as you say, she could stick to inviting you to things which are baby friendly if she's always going to bring the baby, rather than booking you up for the evening and then ending up only seeing you for an hour or so because she's brought the baby.

It sounds like your friend has genuine intentions but is probably getting let down by her DH for looking after the baby when she's trying to make plans. I wouldn't be surprised if he is giving her grief about leaving the baby with him and she's giving in because it's too much hassle.

Next time she asks, I'd turn it round and say "Yes would love to do something! Let me know which evenings you'll be baby-free and we'll go for a nice dinner and some drinks". Make it clear that you'd like to do something adult-centred.

I'm probably just like your friend in that I don't want to and can't really leave my ebf baby...but I deliberately don't make plans that don't involve the baby since I tried to go out alone and hated every second!

Fondly recalling the time I arranged and paid for my 30th to be at a lovely expensive restaurant, intending it to be a chance to have an elegant understated evening with my friends. Table booking at 9 and everyone was getting dressed up etc. One of my friends brought her 1 year old and 3 year old along, saying although she agreed to come to an adult evening she just couldn’t bear to leave the little ones at home and I wouldn’t even notice them.

Of course, they cried and fussed and threw food whilst my friend spent half the night regaling us all with toileting stories, which the group of friends then joyfully joined in with because they had kids too, and before I knew it the evening turned into a mums coffee morning at Costa.

I did try and bring the topic back to anything other than poo and weaning and purée but every time I did, we’d end up right back there. Friends all left saying it was so nice to have a catch up and see the little ones!

I guess I should be grateful they all showed up huh?

You've never had a baby, clearly. I've breastfed 3 (still feeding an 11 month old) I still can't leave him longer than a couple of hours, so it is much easier to take him with me and feed wherever I am. My husband isnt tied to him like i am as he doesnt lactate, so yes he is more free to do things. I think your friend has clearly moved onto the next stage of her life and you are still at a very different point (eating out, going to the pub as you please). If you dont want the baby in tow or to listen to baby chat (this is her reality 24/7 so she can be forgiven for mentioning the tiny human her life revolves around) id find some childfree friends for meals out.

I'm sure you'll be back in a few years when you get there too, who knows by then the friend will have older kids and will probably fancy the childfree restaurant!

@SausageFox

I'm still not sure why the halfway house of takeaway and drinks at hers isn't a possibility? Baby will probably sleep through most of it. Maybe she'll relax and you can get to the bottom of the issue. Plus you can still have a fun evening.

I think that would be a good compromise if this was the first time it had happened and if there was a better reason than 'Dh going out is more important than you' (though most babies I have known have tended to have a sixth sense for when their parent is relying on them sleeping and then refused to do so). It would also be a reasonable plan to make in the first place. But why should OP put up with constant last minute changes to their plans like this?

@GettingThemFromHereToThere

YABU. Unfortunately it's one of those things that you can't really judge on until you have a baby.

The fact she sees you regularly despite living hours away should be enough. If you put pressure on her, she is likely to stop wanting to see you.

Also, I don't understand why having the baby there makes a difference to what conversations you have. Until they reach toddler hood and are watching around etc it's quite easy to take a baby out and still have decent adult conversation.

She had the baby six months ago, so presumably she can judge now.

What pressure am I putting on her, exactly?

It makes a difference having the baby there, because the conversation consists entirely of talking to the baby, or being broken by her talking to the baby.

'What are you thinking or orang Dij?'

'Oh well I thought the...'

'Look at you my treasure! Do you like being at the pub? Yes you do! Sorry, Dij. She's been to the park today, haven't you my love? Have you decided what you're ordering?'

'Yeah, I think...'

'Do you need a bib my little baby? Do you? Yes you do! She's going to the soft play tomorrow Auntie Dij'

Gives up 'Ooo the soft play? That'll be fun won't it?'

The several minutes of talking through the child then the loop replays.

@StickyToffeePuddingAndIceCream What patronising dreck.