4 year old assembly “girls can be boys”

[AnotherNameChanged1234]

Is this the norm? My childrens school had an assembly (via zoom of course) on boys can be girls and girls can be boys. The whole school attended - rising 3 year olds through to 11 year olds (nursery is part of schools here -devolved U.K. nation)

I’m so angry, this doesn’t feel age appropriate at all. I’m so angry, my 6 year old was sobbing over it and it completely took me off guard.

I’m not an anti-trans person, I have some good friends who are trans, I’ve seen the pain they’ve gone through, and I’ll always encourage sympathy and no judgement, but this seems like madness. 3 and 4 year olds barely even know what boy and girl are. These poor kids have had two year’s socialisation stolen away from them, can’t we just let them be kids for a few years?

AIBU to be cross, or is this the norm in every school?

YABU- it’s the norm
YANBU- it’s not the norm for this age group

It is indoctrination. For the benefit of a certain type of adult. It needs to bloody well stop. If they can't educate our kids in actual facts, then those teachers should be sacked. This is so abusive. Manipulating young kids in order to take control of the future. They can fuck off with this shit.

My daughter had only just turned 5 when a well meaning teacher gave them lessons on this..apparently if a girl prefers wearing trousers then they’re probably a boy. Some boys like to dress up in dresses so might actually be girls. She cried a few times and was really confused as she liked being a girl but also like wearing trousers. I’ve since deregistered her, problem solved.

Who said you can't be straight?
@girlmom21 in some schools you end up with large proportions of classes who have declared that they are "non-binary". They are in heterosexual relationships, dress in ways which are conventional for their sex, and would never ever consider a person of the same sex as a prospective romantic/sexual partner. Yet they can now call themselves "queer" (which many older homosexual people still consider to be an offensive slur) which means that they can consider themselves "different from everyone else" and wave colourful flags around as they follow the herd.

In an American university, the LGBT club ended up full of heterosexual people who pushed out the actual gay men and lesbian women.

@Dishwashersaurous

Any response from school on exactly what the assembly content was?

PowerPoint on LGBTQ+ history month taken from Twinkle.

“transgender-this means a person who identifies as a different gender to that of their body. This could be a girl who identifies as a boy or a boy who identifies as a girl. Some transgender people don’t feel that they are either gender. This is called non-binary”

There was obviously further discussion than this hence the story.

@rainrainraincamedowndowndown

The fact is, there are children born ambiguous, so I don't think it's a bad idea to share the information from early age, so those who suffers doesn't feel different and discriminated. From data, it looks like 1 in 1500, so it's rare, but not totally rare either. It maybe confusing for normal children, but what about the children born different? That's my thinking.

This has got nothing to do with people who have DSDs. Having genitals which were unclear at first inspection does not mean that you are not either male or female. Modern western medical science (ultrasound scans and chromosomal analysis) allows doctors to diagnose DSDs and know what sex you really are. Neither does it enable one to change sex, that's impossible.

It's the age that is the issue and this is not an appropriate topic for very young children. 4 is a very young age when they start be aware of their gender, never mind changing it.

Will a 4 year old girl who wants to play with the lego (or a traditional boys toy) think she will turn into a boy? Or does she think she will have no choice in whether she is a boy or a girl? Who knows what goes on in their imagination. I know of a teenager who is needing counselling to cope with all of this, so how a 4 year old is supposed to handle it I have no idea.

Why can't children be allowed a childhood without worrying about sex and gender.

@Jazzhandedintrovert

My daughter had only just turned 5 when a well meaning teacher gave them lessons on this..apparently if a girl prefers wearing trousers then they’re probably a boy. Some boys like to dress up in dresses so might actually be girls. She cried a few times and was really confused as she liked being a girl but also like wearing trousers. I’ve since deregistered her, problem solved.

I don't blame you for doing this, I'd probably deregister too.

But seriously, we all pay in to these schools to educate our children. Why the fuck is the only option available to remove our kids from these schools because they are incapable of teaching the truth. The schools remain as training camps for this indoctrination for the kids whose parents have no other option. Not. Bloody. Good. Enough.

I'd be sobbing, too, if my kids' school started teaching this type of nonsense. About the same as flat earthism or denial of evolution. I'd be making an appointment with the head, OP. Asking what exactly was said and why.

Schools can teach age appropriate, very basic stuff about challenging stereotypes and respect and different families. That's about as far as it needs or ought to go. By the time kids get to upper years of primary, basic sex ed kicks in and in most schools this is dealt with sensibly and without masses of detail.

No school should be teaching disinformation this blatant.

I’m confused.
What are the actual differences between the male gender and female gender?
I know that there are physical differences between the male and female sexes.
But gender confuses me. It sounds like it’s perpetuating gender stereotypes and sexism and we should be encouraging the opposite - that it does not matter which sex you are, you can do whatever you want without fear of judgment. Surely?

Did you see/hear the exact message? Was if more "girls can be like boys/do what boys do and vice versa"? I.e no sex stereotypes?

That should be applauded surely?

PowerPoint on LGBTQ+ history month taken from Twinkle.

“transgender-this means a person who identifies as a different gender to that of their body. This could be a girl who identifies as a boy or a boy who identifies as a girl. Some transgender people don’t feel that they are either gender. This is called non-binary”

Okay. A bit positive in that this sounds like clueless bad teaching, rather than deliberately indocrinating children with harmful ideas. The school should be aware of how these subjects are supposed to be taught, though, with sensitivity and consideration. 'stuff I read on the internet' is not quality teaching material, of course.

• given that few adults really understand what 'gender' or 'binary' even means, it's obviously not age appropriate to teach complicated academic theory to 4 yos.

@DdraigGoch I was asking the question of a 50 something year old woman who claimed she's not allowed to be straight and then followed up with the old 'I'm not anti trans - I met a trans person once' line

@AnotherNameChanged1234 did the school not think it necessary to make the terminology more age-appropriate if nothing else? How's a 6 year old supposed to understand what 'identifying as' even means?

@sunflowerdaisyrose

My daughter has a friend in her class who identifies as a girl and changed from male to female pronouns at the beginning of year one. She and my daughter are both 6. All the children and parents that I know have literally just accepted it and it's not a big deal for them (or the parents!).

People should be accepting of a boy who likes to wear dresses, play with girls, play with dolls.

People should be accepting of girls who like to wear trousers, and engage in physical active play with boys.

No-one should be suggesting to those children that they are in the wrong body or are really the opposite sex. This is imposing extreme modern concept held by some adults onto children.

Even for older children with dysphoria, most find these feelings resolve when they go though puberty.
Of those who do not, some find they can manage their dysphoria in ways other than living as if they are the other sex.

We need to stop thinking that we are being 'tolerant' by telling/ supporting children to believe they are in the wrong body and start thinking critically and am open and honest look at the facts and complexity of these issues.

Because what we are actually doing is being intolerant of the diversity of boys and girls, intolerant of their being many ways of being many ways of being a boy or a girl. And setting children on a path that can lead to life long medication and surgery is really not a good thing.

This exactly. I can’t believe people are questioning what my child has said was said.

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But YOU need to establish what exactly was covered and how otherwise you risk looking a bit of a plonker if you've got the wrong end of the stick.

@girlmom21 I honestly don’t know. All I know is what my children have repeated to me and what the twinkle sheets say.

It’s clear looking though twinkle’s resources they are pulled together from stonewall resources. There is a video about diversity on there which is terrible, it says there’s no rush to discover yourself then goes through loads of LGBT stuff and not a mention a mention of ethnic diversity, disabilities, learning difficulties etc.

@Rheopecticfluid

It is indoctrination. For the benefit of a certain type of adult. It needs to bloody well stop. If they can't educate our kids in actual facts, then those teachers should be sacked. This is so abusive. Manipulating young kids in order to take control of the future. They can fuck off with this shit.

Unfortunately teachers are more at risk of being sacked if they refuse to teach this nonsense.

But yes if the message is humans can change sex, look at Safe Schools Alliance

@Glisil

I’m confused. What are the actual differences between the male gender and female gender? I know that there are physical differences between the male and female sexes. But gender confuses me. It sounds like it’s perpetuating gender stereotypes and sexism and we should be encouraging the opposite - that it does not matter which sex you are, you can do whatever you want without fear of judgment. Surely?

Yes, it is perpetuating stereotypes. Especially when done to six year olds!

ALL the children in that class are getting a message from this 'transition' on what it means to be a boy or a girl. All of that message is one big limiting stereotype.

Children have long been on the receiving end of propaganda in schools, to me this just sounds like the natural progression of that. When I was at school the propaganda was about racial equality, tolerance, the need to protect the environment and the benefits of the EU (EEC then). Later on it became about the acceptance of different sexualities, now it's about transgender rights.

The powers that be - schools, teachers, governments, campaign groups - know that the best way to indoctrinate people is to start when they're young. Young minds can be groomed more easily. It's much like 1984 - fashion the mind in a way that it is unable to form a dissenting view, because the view being presented is "right" and anything else automatically gets seen as "wrong" - all the while in a manner that the person being indoctrinated can't see. Do it widely enough and long enough and society thinks the way it has been decided it should.

A benefit (to the groomers) of starting this indoctrination so young is that dissenters can be picked out early and given particular focus for re-education. The OP's daughter was upset, this will be noticed and efforts can be targeted where required most.

We only have ourselves to blame, really. Most people didn't complain about racial or religious freedom being promoted, because they agreed with it. They didn't complain about environmental issues being promoted, because they agreed with it. But by allowing our children to be indoctrinated on issues we agree with, we have proved that indoctrination works. It's too powerful a tool for those in charge to wield, but they will not let go of it now. Today it's transgender issues, IMO in a generation or two it will be about age-related consent issues. (Just my hunch because I don't see where else it can go.)

We allowed them to let the genie out of the bottle by not complaining when they promoted things we agreed with. It's our own fault.

YANBU the school is, these are kids that dont understand anything about sex or their bodies and all they know of gender is the signposting/gate keeping of toys labeled as for them and not for them based on a colour scheme.

I would complain to the school.

@Glisil

I’m confused. What are the actual differences between the male gender and female gender? I know that there are physical differences between the male and female sexes. But gender confuses me. It sounds like it’s perpetuating gender stereotypes and sexism and we should be encouraging the opposite - that it does not matter which sex you are, you can do whatever you want without fear of judgment. Surely?

Nobody knows, because the people who believe in this stuff refuse to say what they believe any of these things actually are.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

This exactly. I can’t believe people are questioning what my child has said was said.

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But YOU need to establish what exactly was covered and how otherwise you risk looking a bit of a plonker if you've got the wrong end of the stick.

Now read the full thread

I wonder if there is a child in school that has come out as trans and the school have done a rushed assembly to try and explain to the kids to make it easier for them. This is the only way this would be even remotely acceptable.