4 year old assembly “girls can be boys”

[AnotherNameChanged1234]

Is this the norm? My childrens school had an assembly (via zoom of course) on boys can be girls and girls can be boys. The whole school attended - rising 3 year olds through to 11 year olds (nursery is part of schools here -devolved U.K. nation)

I’m so angry, this doesn’t feel age appropriate at all. I’m so angry, my 6 year old was sobbing over it and it completely took me off guard.

I’m not an anti-trans person, I have some good friends who are trans, I’ve seen the pain they’ve gone through, and I’ll always encourage sympathy and no judgement, but this seems like madness. 3 and 4 year olds barely even know what boy and girl are. These poor kids have had two year’s socialisation stolen away from them, can’t we just let them be kids for a few years?

AIBU to be cross, or is this the norm in every school?

YABU- it’s the norm
YANBU- it’s not the norm for this age group

I would take my child out of a school promoting that sort of agenda. 100% no question. Either transferring to another school or home educating.

Following up with the school is a good idea. The whole topic is all over the map n schools so it's hard to say what's common.

I'd also look up the PSHE policy and see what it says around this topic, though I've noticed some policies have some great ideals, but how it plays out is very different, especially in recent years where it's squeezed even more with COVID.

My DS1 at 8 had an upset about this - not in school, but someone who thought they were being kind trying to explain transgender in an absolutely butchered to the tune of 'most boys grow up to be men, but some grow up to be women'. Compounded with many incidents of people asking if he was or wanted to be a girl from his hair to his hobbies, I had a freaked out kid with child logic who thought he was going to change any minute. I had to add in the missing details the woman left out, reinforcing our conversations about puberty and how some who are distressed with their bodies change their appearance to one they hope they'll be more comfortable with, but the changes he feared would require medications and surgeries & wouldn't just show up.

Some years on, we ended up in another sudden conversation with him at the wrong end of the stick where he thought being trans was all about clothes - that thinking of wearing a skirt meant he was trans. We had a long conversation about different ways that word is used now.

The issue in a lot of the teaching is that it is simplified to appearances and just deciding to be different makes everything happy & tends to erase gender dysphoria. I think it can be compounded by puberty education that sometimes leaves out how some even significant discomfort at the changes and just in the idea of growing up is entirely normal & not something that needs pathologized, just space to talk and work through it.

Sorry but it’s sick what they are doing to kids by peddling this utter shit. I don’t blame your child for crying - she probably knows it’s shit but can’t understand why adults she trusts would gaslight her like this. I’d do a massive complaint to the school.

Yes, everyone can be who they want and do what they want. No, a female person cannot become a male person. All that being trans involves is trying to emulate the opposite sex, often through surgery and hormones, in an effort to appear genuine. Feeling unhappy with who you are doesn’t mean you are actually something else. It just means you feel unhappy. Even if you pretend you are something else, you’ll probably still be unhappy.

[quote rainrainraincamedowndowndown]@WorriedMumsDontSleep

Yes, I know it's different. But my point was, it's better than not teaching it's ok to be different.

I've just read this article. It's heartbreaking. This shouldn't happen. So, to prevent a tragedy like this, then I think it's worth few children crying which can be rectified the misunderstanding by their parents, imo.

www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/people/pupils-in-shock-after-bullied-classmate-aged-12-reportedly-takes-his-own-life-in-milton-keynes-3560190[/quote]
No, it's not a good idea to teach all our 4 year olds (and via that their parents) that if you're good at Lego (or whatever) you are maybe actually a boy and can choose to change sex. In the full knowledge that that may lead to life long and dangerous medical treatment, untold psychological damage, infertility, etc. Not even if you know of a child who has committed suicide due to bullying about them using different pronouns. (And let's face it, before all this trans hsyteria it wouldn't even have occurred to them to use those pronouns.)
You teach children to be tolerant of difference, generally, and if there is a child in the class who presents as trans you can talk about that as appropriate. But without teaching children that it's possible to change sex. It isn't, and there is no option to transition medically (which obviously doesn't change your sex anyhow) while of school age anyway.

Any response from school on exactly what the assembly content was?

@Sillydoggy

Are you muddling Disorders/Variations of Sexual Development with trans because they are not remotely related.

Its a form of body dysmorphia isnt it?

OP get your facts together then get in touch with safe schools alliance for help.

I managed to get this stuff out of my kids primary school.

Teaching tolerance and diversity yes
Teaching you can become the opposite sex, that certain hobbies make you a girl, that you can be born in the wrong body...big fat no

That child's death will be the result of a combination of circumstances and safeguarding fail.
Homophobia and bullying are fails that the school should have picked up on. If a parent chooses to affirm a child, however and use a new name and pronouns, schools have to use them. They rightly have no obligation to do so without parental consent.
What that child needed was counselling and support. Not for people to politicise their death to push a homophobic agenda.

@Sillydoggy

In fact given the Welsh Assembly's approach I doubt there is any misunderstanding on the part of the child.

This exactly. I can’t believe people are questioning what my child has said was said.

Could this be linked in a child that is transitioning in school or going by different pronouns

@Strictlyfanoftenyears
No. DSD is nothing to do with trans.
People with DSDs are still either male or female and it has nothing to do with dysphoria.

[quote Cattenberg]I do think this is very confusing for young children. My DD is nearly four and she wouldn’t understand it.

But having read about this tragic case today, I think schools need to teach older children about gender dysphoria to prevent trans and gender non-conforming children from being bullied.

[https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/people/pupils-in-shock-after-bullied-classmate-aged-12-reportedly-takes-his-own-life-in-milton-keynes-3560190][/quote]
I suspect that there is more to this story than the press is aware of. It's not unusual for FtM transitioners to have a hidden history of sexual abuse. It's quite likely that this child was already suffering from poor mental health. There has been no evidence yet given of a gender dysphoria diagnosis.

What is really shocking is how organisations and individuals have been preying on vulnerable adolescents, telling them that all their problems can be solved using some magic potions and a surgeon's knife. Adults need to act in a child's best interests, not just blindly agree with whatever their wants are through the threat of self-harm.

Bullying and sexual harassment are of course rife in schools, which is a big part of the problem.

I sometimes wonder whether people who advocate teaching children this, including the Labour led Welsh Government, ever think about the effect on the NHS. How do you feel about never being able to get a hip replacement, despite constant pain and lack of mobility, because there are thousands of young people queueing up for "essential" top and bottom surgery, and then for IVF treatment because they've been made infertile, and then for whatever treatment they can get when the drugs they have to take for life cause some horrendous medical condition? Are you happy to lose the NHS over this issue?

[quote AnotherNameChanged1234]@WorriedGiraffe DD has been very over dramatic since the pandemic started. We get a lot of floods of tears, usually because something has upset her but she can’t explain it.

If I’m being over dramatic apologies. I had some bad news last night totally unrelated and I barely slept. I’m still really angry about this being pushed on children so young.[/quote]
You're not being dramatic

It's bad enough that young children are being introduced to such complicated matters

But this is on top of lockdowns

And I hadn't even realised school stuff was still happening on zoom.

I would ask them why they think it's okay to befuddle children with this.

My daughter has a friend in her class who identifies as a girl and changed from male to female pronouns at the beginning of year one. She and my daughter are both 6. All the children and parents that I know have literally just accepted it and it's not a big deal for them (or the parents!).

YANU at all. Batshittery. Check out Safe Schools Alliance . I wonder of the assembly highlighted that children can have visible or invisible disabilities or health conditions or that children can be Black etc I bet only a token mention if any.

@sunflowerdaisyrose

My daughter has a friend in her class who identifies as a girl and changed from male to female pronouns at the beginning of year one. She and my daughter are both 6. All the children and parents that I know have literally just accepted it and it's not a big deal for them (or the parents!).

Well that’s because there is no issue at the age of 6 is there? You can all just pretend that this child is a girl on the basis of them having long hair and wearing a dress. Not quite as easy if daughter and friend were 15 and a teenage boy wanted to get changed with your daughter or play on her sports team. Doubt everyone would ‘just accept it’ then.

Also, it’s not a good idea to allow a young child to think it’s possible to change sex. You can’t and if you allow social transition at a young age you’re setting up a whole host of problems when the child’s real sex becomes impossible to conceal.

Its a form of body dysmorphia isnt it?

No, a DSD is a disorder (or difference) of sexual development. It is physical. Men with two X chromosomes or women with a Y chromosome, women born without a uterus etc. Some are fairly minor or not apparent from the external genitalia so might never be discovered, or only discovered at puberty when a girl fails to menstruate or in adulthood when the person has fertility problems.

Gender dysphoria is a psychiatric condition. The majority of trans people have a completely normal genetic karyotype and their biological sex is completely unambiguous.

Complain. Complain to your MS too.

Children should not be taught things which are untrue.

Yanbu at all op and I'd be raging. Sorry I haven't read all the responses (so someone might have already suggested this) but please check out advice/resources from the safe schools alliance. They even have template letters of concern that you can use/adapt for writing to your dd's school.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

@sunflowerdaisyrose

That’s disgusting, that poor child.
How does a 6 year old know what it means to be the opposite sex?

My brother used to dress up in girls clothes, push a pram around with a doll - he’s now a straight, married man.
My niece is a typical Tom boy, has been since she was a toddler. Never wore girls clothes in her life or been feminine at all. She’s now 11 and still a girl.

I think so many ‘trans’ children are pushed into it by parents wanting to be special and their actual personalities are completely disregarded.

@BoredZelda

It came out on the school run and there wasn’t time to discuss it, I asked who had said what and she told me it was the teachers in whole school assembly.

So you didn’t actually hear what was said?

Sounds very much like a miscommunication as it seems very unlikely this was done in the way you describe.

Young children will have difficulty understanding complex concepts such as this - heck, most adults struggle with some of the more batshit elements. Even those fully signed up to the religion don't appear to completely understand what they're saying, so when faced with a simple question (such as "what is a woman?") they just fall apart and start gibbering.

This is precisely the reason that teachers need to be careful what they say, to avoid any room at all for misinterpretation.

@Cbtb the thing is, saying sexual abuse victims get a misgendering pass is a bit gatekeepy, isn't it?
Personally I know enough about child development to know that using incorrect sexed pronouns can cause issues. I mean, even neurotypical children would struggle with it, nevermind those with additional needs.
I would insist they use a name, but never a pronoun and I would use they if necessary as pronouns are currently sex based so for simplicity that's what children and adults mostly need to understand.

[quote AnotherNameChanged1234]@Clymene we are not in England we are in Wales[/quote]
Not surprised.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/ might well be worth a look but had some very confused explanations given the DC from their schools.

Primary, like anything raise by parents, was defensive and dimissive and then blamed kids for not undertsanding properly and secondary - well there's lots of things with that school. So we've relied on talking at home with them.

@sunflowerdaisyrose

My daughter has a friend in her class who identifies as a girl and changed from male to female pronouns at the beginning of year one. She and my daughter are both 6. All the children and parents that I know have literally just accepted it and it's not a big deal for them (or the parents!).

Come back when they are 15 and tell us there is no problem.

When my dd was 12 she stopped playing football as there were three or four teams in the league with a boy in the team and she got hurt a few times playing against them.

Also, seven twelve year old boys in the girls changing room.