4 year old assembly “girls can be boys”

[AnotherNameChanged1234]

Is this the norm? My childrens school had an assembly (via zoom of course) on boys can be girls and girls can be boys. The whole school attended - rising 3 year olds through to 11 year olds (nursery is part of schools here -devolved U.K. nation)

I’m so angry, this doesn’t feel age appropriate at all. I’m so angry, my 6 year old was sobbing over it and it completely took me off guard.

I’m not an anti-trans person, I have some good friends who are trans, I’ve seen the pain they’ve gone through, and I’ll always encourage sympathy and no judgement, but this seems like madness. 3 and 4 year olds barely even know what boy and girl are. These poor kids have had two year’s socialisation stolen away from them, can’t we just let them be kids for a few years?

AIBU to be cross, or is this the norm in every school?

YABU- it’s the norm
YANBU- it’s not the norm for this age group

If you destroy a child's basic understanding of the world - of course they will be badly affected. I imagine this is really damaging, psychologically.
This is the very deliberate gaslighting of 4 year olds. It's evil, frankly. Teachers who do this shouldn't be in teaching.
I think all teachers should watch that Youtube video which shows young people medically transitioning, from their point of view - it's horrific - before they tell young children that they can change sex if they fancy it.

@Progress2019

It’s too confusing for small children. Are there still Tomboys? The main one from our school is married with two children, and still tomboyish. Justin, who preferred playing with girls, rather than football is still a man, with a husband. Nowadays would they have been pressurised into changing sex?

Kids are pressured into thinking that they might be the wrong gender rather than gay/lesbian/bi or just normal and "wobbly" (the sort of puberty we went through)

I'd be furious with this

My kids are at the other end of schooling and it was not like this at all at primary.

@Cbtb - maybe you should suggest that your children talk to you if they feel they want to be a different sex, not just talk to "a grown up". I'm sure there are plenty of grown ups who would like to tell them how great medical transition is.

I'm not surprised that OP's dd was upset. My kids would have been worried that they'd wake up being the opposite sex and grow a willy/their willy would drop off.

@Cbtb
I largely agree with you and that is mostly what the national curriculum covers.
The main difference being that the NC is big on tolerance, so asserting that a person must use non based pronouns is a position of intolerance. And there are many good reasons some people don't want to use them. Children should be taught to respect that choice too.

@Swear

If you destroy a child's basic understanding of the world - of course they will be badly affected. I imagine this is really damaging, psychologically. This is the very deliberate gaslighting of 4 year olds. It's evil, frankly. Teachers who do this shouldn't be in teaching. I think all teachers should watch that Youtube video which shows young people medically transitioning, from their point of view - it's horrific - before they tell young children that they can change sex if they fancy it.

I agree a child needs basic biology as underpinning their understanding of the world

It cannot shift and should not be influenced by trans activists etc

It must be practically impossible for teenage girls to be butch lesbians these days. How progressive.

Teachers who do this shouldn't be in teaching.

Unfortunately it's being sanctioned by many in senior leadership and all the unions.
Normal teachers on the ground are powerless to stop it.

Why are teachers bowing down to this? If I was a teacher, there is absolutely no way that I would agree to teach these extremely damaging lies. Because I care about children and I care about the truth, as well as other things. If you don't care about children or about not teaching pure lies, why are you in teaching?

22herewecome "Sillydoggy. Adolescence is a confusing time anyway, so many teens have self-esteem and confidence issues anyway, think they don't fit in, plus burgeoning hormones etc I can see the appeal of thinking that if you had another identity things might be better.*"
*
Absolutely. It seems perfectly rational for a teen to experiment with new identities. The harm is done when people are bullied for not joining in the fashion or when the fashion is taken to be some kind of reality and teens are pushed to change their bodies because of it.

@swear

I got bored of typing “grown up you trust/like” rather than just grown up. I don’t just tell my dd she should talk to me if she is worried about anything. I tell her she can talk to me of course but I also tell her she can tell her dad, granny, aunties, teacher etc. I am often away with work and it is essential she has other adults in her life she can trust. I trust all these people - after all I let them care for her so she can talk to them.

@Cbtb

It sound like someone tried to explain trans and confused everyone which is very easy because of you can’t explain gender without stereotypes you end up saying that the stereotypes define the gender and then you must be the gender that fits the stereotype.

Back in history:
Only boys play football
Only girls play with dolls
Anything else is abnormal

Some magical period in the 1970s-1990s:
Boys and girls can play with dolls and play football. You are normal.

Now
If you play with dolls you are a girl
If you play football you are a boy
It is normal to change gender and take medications

What I am trying to teach my kid:

Girls normally have vaginas. Boys normally have willies. Girls grow up to be women. Boys grow up to be men. When this happens it is all puberty. Women have a eggs and a womb and inside where they can grow a baby after having sex and breasts that make milk to feed the baby. Men have a penis and use this to give the women sperm in her vagina that meets an egg and makes it grow into a baby. When women are not having a baby they get rid of the egg and womb lining by bleeding from their vagina once a month. This is called a period.

Until we are grown ups we should not have sex. What is under our pants in private to us and we should not show it to people. If someone tries to look or touch under your pants tell a grown up you like.

Girls can play football
Boys can wear dresses
Other than the making and breastfeeding of babies there is nothing that is only a “man’s job” or a “womens job”

Women can love men, women, both or neither. Men can love women, men, both or neither. Some people are mean to other people because of who they love. We should not do this.

Some men feel like they should be women and some women feel like they should be men. Sometimes doctors help people change what they look like because of this. Some people are mean to them because of this. We should not be mean to them. If you feel like this you should tell a grown up. We should always call people the name they want to be called and not pick on people because they look different to what we are used to.

People come in lots of different colours and from different places. People from different places may talk differently to us, dress differently, eat different food and have different rules. Wherever someone comes from or what they look like does not make them any less people just like us. Some people are mean to them because of this, we must not do this. It is exciting and fun to learn about all these places and people but we must still keep to our important rules about being nice to others and our private parts and tell a grown up if you are worried.

It seems simple to me!

THIS!

@Swear

Why are teachers bowing down to this? If I was a teacher, there is absolutely no way that I would agree to teach these extremely damaging lies. Because I care about children and I care about the truth, as well as other things. If you don't care about children or about not teaching pure lies, why are you in teaching?

Unions, senior leadership. So if you choose to actively fight it you lose your job. Most we can do is choose not to spread the poison.

Whether it’s the norm or not it’s clearly wildly inappropriate. As I pointed out when this was suggested in my school as a teacher, children of this age are only just starting to separate from their parents and then to learn that in the normal course of things girls will become women and boys become men. Children who have limited understanding of puberty quite clearly shouldn’t be exposed to stuff that is patently confusing and possibly damaging. It’s ideology before welfare.
Thankfully my school agreed not to do it when I pointed this out. Many just don’t think it through properly.

Am I the only one wondering why their assembly was over zoom?! I had no idea assemblies weren't happening. How sad.

Did your child tell you about this OP? I have young children too and worry about if and when their school starts preaching this crap to them.

It’s no wonder kids are growing up with so many issues and so many end up with an identity crisis.

None of this was going on when I was at school and strangely enough now that there’s more focus on trans rights etc. none of my old school friends have come out as trans.

It makes me so angry. I believe they are harming our children by confusing them and putting ideas into their heads that they are not old enough to understand or process. I think they are leading children into wrongly believing they are trans when they are not. This is going to lead to a generation of messed up individuals.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Funny how the examples are almost always little girls wanting to be boys, which is to draw attention away from the adults who are mostly males claiming to be women, who wish to violate female boundaries.

Totally agree

Thankfully my school agreed not to do it when I pointed this out. Many just don’t think it through proper
Sadly some schools routinely ignore their staff. Glad yours listened.

@rainrainraincamedowndowndown

The fact is, there are children born ambiguous, so I don't think it's a bad idea to share the information from early age, so those who suffers doesn't feel different and discriminated. From data, it looks like 1 in 1500, so it's rare, but not totally rare either. It maybe confusing for normal children, but what about the children born different? That's my thinking.

And why teach to that 1 in 1500?

We don't teach that swans are or can be black, we have white swans, swans are white.

That there are about half a million back swans in the world doesn't affect swans being a white bird. Black swans are an anomaly that we teach about in specific classes covering diversification in birds.

So why teach anything about anomalous human conditions in a general PSHE style assembly? Especially to a whole school session?

Normal children can ;learn about diversity in many varied ways. But they should all be age appropriate and free of gender ideology, claptrap and downright lies. Lies as no matter what the VSD under discussion, human beings are all male or female. The mistake in coding, the VSD, does not change that basic fact.

@WorriedMumsDontSleep

Yes, I know it's different. But my point was, it's better than not teaching it's ok to be different.

I've just read this article. It's heartbreaking. This shouldn't happen. So, to prevent a tragedy like this, then I think it's worth few children crying which can be rectified the misunderstanding by their parents, imo.

www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/people/pupils-in-shock-after-bullied-classmate-aged-12-reportedly-takes-his-own-life-in-milton-keynes-3560190

I do think it sounds like an unhelpful approach OP.

I too, have trans friends and family so I have no issue with it, but I don't think young kids should be taught along the lines of 'anyone can be any gender' as though it's really common.

More that a small number of people really cannot live as their birth sex and can get help so they live as a member of the opposite sex, and some people feel a profound sense of being neither and may use they/them pronouns. And that this group of people often face unfair prejudice that we should combat when we can.

They should be taught that you can be a boy or girl however you like; there are no 'rules' about clothes, toys and interests - these are just things created by historical limitations that longer apply. Being interested in 'gender atypical' things is, in the vast majority of cases, not an indicator that you are trans, though it can be part of trans people's experience.

DC (13) identifies as NB as it happens - they've always been quite an unconventional child (like their mother). I support them but also try to provide my perspective to encourage them to think about whether this degree of reflection on gender/sexuality really 'helps' them or not andremind them that they don't have to worry too much about it really and they have plenty of time to explore.

@WorriedMumsDontSleep

“Non based pronouns” ? I’m not even sure what that means!

If you mean victims of sexual assault having to call their attacker by female pronouns I fully agree it’s horrific. Rapists are men (under uk law). Male pronouns only. I don’t feel this nuance is needed at 6. If it was to be relevant to a specific child under whatever horrible circumstances I think you could deal with that separately.

Primary aged kids are probably only going to be dealing with this in very specific circumstances. So if Mr Jones the y4 teacher becomes Mrs Jones then I would expect my dd to call her Mrs/her. If I was not comfortable with the SG protections in place I would be removing my DD but probably not telling her why. It might be different in senior school.

If you mean “cat gender” Etc I don’t think it’s relevant at this age. If Johnny thinks he’s a cat/superman then we can call him a cat/superman but at this age it’s not gender ideology it’s a normal child development phase.

Outside of school she’s not going to be hanging out with any adults who think they a cats/adult babies or whatever!

In conclusion at primary age especially under 8 I think a blanket rule of “call people what they want to be called” works with the caveat that the “pants” rule and the other “be nice” rules are also followed. We have lots of chats about the fact that the rules apply to other kids as well and if they are not nice to her then she dosent have to be nice to them!

Ohh did they say girls have to consider being boys? That’s definitely not on, I would complain.

I was sent to a catholic primary school and one assembly they had a nun in talking about how they had had 'the calling' to god. It was described as something you could not ignore. For about a year after I was absolutely terrified that I would get 'the calling' and have to be a nun.

They didn't say anyone had to consider being a nun but my six year old brain worked out that if this happened to some people it could happen to me.

*We don't teach that swans are or can be black, we have white swans, swans are white.

That there are about half a million back swans in the world doesn't affect swans being a white bird. Black swans are an anomaly that we teach about in specific classes covering diversification in birds.

So why teach anything about anomalous human conditions in a general PSHE style assembly? Especially to a whole school session?*

Exasperating, isn't it? Diversions from the norm does not mean the norm is diverse.

Cbtb that looks like a great explanation of everything. Maybe OP should c&p that and suggest the school adopt that for their assembly!