AIBU to feel overwhelmed by non-binary, cancel culture, and woke society?

[FordSiesta]

I've got to the stage where I feel quite apprehensive about the future. It just feels like there will be no 'men' or 'women' or 'boys' and 'girls' and everyone will need to conform to various gender identities and have to remember all the different ways people identify so as not to accidently offend anyone. I'm supportive of transgender people and understand people changing from male to female or vice versa but now there's all this non-binary stuff it's getting confusing.

All these things going on in this 'woke society' and if you aren't seen as wanting to conform with all this new stuff then the 'cancel culture' comes at you.

I just feel like I would be happy if there wasn't so much pressure placed on people to get pronouns correct if for millions of years we've used he/him and she/her and now we need to say they/them when we were taught in school they/them was plural.

I don't have kids yet but I do wonder if I did what the world would be like for them growing up.

AIBU for wanting to just continue with two genders?

The general tone of FWR is anti-trans, though. There used to be a good balance of posters interested in women's rights, but on the whole, people have stopped posting because of the overwhelming mania for discussing trans issues

There are two boards on the Feminist board. It was split last year at the behest of those who don't want to discuss sex and gender issues so there is now the Feminism:Chat board and the Feminism:Sex and Gender board (i.e. the naughty corner). Unsurprisingly, the main topic of conversation on the sex and gender board is...sex and gender. If you want to discuss general feminist issues, the Feminism:Chat board is there specifically for your use. It's pretty quiet on there so you could start a few threads if you're so minded.

It'll be fine, it's all divisive rhetoric on both sides. Stop going on social media.

@Ballcactus

This stance is ignorant. It’s really not that hard. Gender is a social construct, use the pronouns that the person wants you to.

If gender is a social construct, can you explain what you think it is and why we should pay any attention to it?

@Momicrone

With the high prevalence of mental heath issues amongst young people, I support anything that keeps them sane. I'd rather they experiment with genders/pronouns than self harm, depression or worse.

The difficulty with this is that the little evidence available seems to indicate that pandering to people's beliefs about their identity doesn't improve their mental health, but worsens it. Which is not surprising if you teach people - as gender ideology does - that you are entitled to have absolute control about how other people should perceive you. This just isn't possible, for anyone, so it's a setup for disappointment. Furthermore, when young people are taught that people not sharing in their own perception of themselves is "literal violence", it destroys normal resilience.

@NowtSalamander

Sarah are you supporting the active harm being done to young women, including lesbians, autistic girls, rape victims, that I can see every day at my school? Because these girls are transitioning and planning a medicalised future. I listened to an experienced sexologist on a podcast yesterday who said, amongst other things, that being on cross-sex hormones their whole lives would take away 20 years of their life.

I understand a teenager caught up in a trend not understanding the law of unintended consequences. I don’t understand an adult woman who claims to think that people who oppose this are being bigoted.

I think (and I know a lot of people think) that there's a crisis in care for young people. We need better support for them. I don't think we're going to get there with faux-naive 'oh goodness I am so confused by pronouns' type posts.

I wouldn't worry too much, there is definitely push back happening across society. The majority seem to have concerns.

Sex not gender. Gender is made up toxic bollocks

It’s not my job to educate you, you should do that yourself.

@Waitwhat23

The general tone of FWR is anti-trans, though. There used to be a good balance of posters interested in women's rights, but on the whole, people have stopped posting because of the overwhelming mania for discussing trans issues

There are two boards on the Feminist board. It was split last year at the behest of those who don't want to discuss sex and gender issues so there is now the Feminism:Chat board and the Feminism:Sex and Gender board (i.e. the naughty corner). Unsurprisingly, the main topic of conversation on the sex and gender board is...sex and gender. If you want to discuss general feminist issues, the Feminism:Chat board is there specifically for your use. It's pretty quiet on there so you could start a few threads if you're so minded.

I ought to - sorry, I really checked out of FWR years ago because it got a bit dominated by the trans stuff.

I really feel like most of this is whipped up a distorted by the tabloids. In real life, the situation is very different and largely unchanged.

YANBU

I can't even bring myself to read more than the title of this thread, such is my despair of the collective lunacy we now live in

Lesbian rights were a major issue for second wave feminism. There was intense discussion over whether lesbianism was compatible with feminism.

I don't recall that. I do recall some qualms over some of the more extreme beliefs of some radical lesbian separatists...

I’m not referring to a man as ‘she’. The end

@Ballcactus

This stance is ignorant. It’s really not that hard. Gender is a social construct, use the pronouns that the person wants you to.

Pronouns are sex based, it's really not that hard.

It’s doing my head in tbh, we have this going on in our own family.
My husbands 12 year old niece has said she has wanted to be male from a young age, maybe she has but instead of just allowing her to express herself and make up her own mind fully at 16 her mother started taking her to the Tavistock at the age of 8 and now her/his mind is well and truly irreversibly made up.
DH’s other, much older niece has two dc with her ex. He is her ex as he declared that he was always a woman in his head and now wishes to live as one. Fine, that’s up to them but this person has joined every trans group going and now aggressively declares they are as much female as the two daughters that HE fathered, with HIS sperm! Never in my almost 50 years have I ever known a female to father a child with female sperm but there you go!

@betwixtlives

I’m not referring to a man as ‘she’. The end

Amen

@AgathaAllAlong

It'll be fine, it's all divisive rhetoric on both sides. Stop going on social media.

It's already not fine. Children are mutilating their bodies, damaging their health, and shortening their lives. Adults are losing their jobs for speaking up on these issues or for refusing to use the Newspeak.

What annoys me is the whole irony of “Cancel Culture” in this context anyway… surely nothing is more binary that cancelled or not cancelled?

@milkyaqua

Lesbian rights were a major issue for second wave feminism. There was intense discussion over whether lesbianism was compatible with feminism.

I don't recall that. I do recall some qualms over some of the more extreme beliefs of some radical lesbian separatists...

Check out Betty Friedan, then ...

I love that you're focussing on radical lesbian separatists here. Cos, of course, it's surely the lesbians and their 'extreme' beliefs that were the problem.

@Ballcactus

It’s not my job to educate you, you should do that yourself.

Sounds like you need to educate yourself.

'Waa, all these weirdos expect 'external validation', waa'... Don't we all expect to be treated with basic courtesy ie to be addressed in the way we consider polite? If we have a professional title, for instance, are we precious snowflakes if we prefer people to use it in a professional setting? If we would rather not be addressed by our first names when we are dealing with strangers, are we unreasonable?

Surely the really dangerous 'cancel culture' is the stuff that's going on in US schools at the moment, with books like Maus and The Colour Purple being banned - and the sneaking in of a mindset over here that schools must teach stuff that 'takes a positive view of British History and Empire' and prohibit anything critical of colonialism

What I don't like is the redefinition of "kindness". That if you are not affirming someone's self-deception, or even not actively encouraging it, you are being unkind. No, kindness has in mind someone's ultimate well-being, it is not about making everyone feel good about themselves in every moment. Kindness speaks the truth and tells people when they are being deceived. Real kindness is hard, even painful, because it forces you to say difficult things that people need to hear, which no one else is telling them. Pandering to someone's every whim and emotion is ultimately cruel, and lazy, not kind. It is not kind to unquestioningly prescribe hormone treatments or surgery to a child. Kindness would seek to get to the heart of why they feel they're trapped in the wrong body through patient and painstaking conversation and investigation before making such life-altering decisions.

None of these things are real. Put the Daily Mail down.

The non-binaries aren't going to come at you and woke you.

Ask yourself how many cancel cultures you've experienced so far. None? That's how many you can look forward to in the future.

Stop looking in the paper for pretend things to be scared of. You'll be cacking yourself over the spaghetti trees next.

Yes, yes, of course we should only be disturbed about the batshit stuff on the right and refuse to look at the sterilising of young lesbians that is going on. Only Daily Mail readers would possibly worry about that.