Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to feel overwhelmed by non-binary, cancel culture, and woke society?

683 replies

FordSiesta · 08/02/2022 20:57

I've got to the stage where I feel quite apprehensive about the future. It just feels like there will be no 'men' or 'women' or 'boys' and 'girls' and everyone will need to conform to various gender identities and have to remember all the different ways people identify so as not to accidently offend anyone. I'm supportive of transgender people and understand people changing from male to female or vice versa but now there's all this non-binary stuff it's getting confusing.

All these things going on in this 'woke society' and if you aren't seen as wanting to conform with all this new stuff then the 'cancel culture' comes at you.

I just feel like I would be happy if there wasn't so much pressure placed on people to get pronouns correct if for millions of years we've used he/him and she/her and now we need to say they/them when we were taught in school they/them was plural.

I don't have kids yet but I do wonder if I did what the world would be like for them growing up.

AIBU for wanting to just continue with two genders?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
SarahAndQuack · 08/02/2022 21:48

*sanctioned.

WomanStanleyWoman · 08/02/2022 21:48

This is the issue. The absolute rejection of any questioning or discussion, to the point of labelling it goady. A flat "no debate" as if we're all meant to turn our brains off and sit on our hands.

But the OP actively wants to turn her brain off. She’s ‘overwhelmed’; it’s all too much, she can’t cope with trying to remember it all. She just wants an easy life, bless her. Where’s the debate in that?

HirplesWithHaggis · 08/02/2022 21:49

@littleowls83

I think you've been reading the Daily Mail. In real life so long as you make a decent effort to get pronouns and terminology right and are prepared to admit your ignorance and apologise if you get something wrong then an accidental slip up isn't a disaster and you don't get 'cancelled'. Being kind to people and respectful of their beliefs and identify isn't a new thing.
Yeah, the Spanish Inquisition had similar policies. JFC.
LovedayCL · 08/02/2022 21:49

@littleowls83

I think you've been reading the Daily Mail. In real life so long as you make a decent effort to get pronouns and terminology right and are prepared to admit your ignorance and apologise if you get something wrong then an accidental slip up isn't a disaster and you don't get 'cancelled'. Being kind to people and respectful of their beliefs and identify isn't a new thing.
Basically ‘in real life as long as you pretend you believe in the new religion, you’ll be safe!’
SarahAndQuack · 08/02/2022 21:49

@BlackMagicWimpund

Likewise, speaking out against 'woke society' just sounds like someone trying to excuse being racist.

Rubbish. I share the OP’s concerns as I object to being called a bigot because I recognize biological sex (and therefore same-sex attraction). I support the rights of girls and women to single-sex spaces. My views are protected in law. That is absolutely nothing like “being racist”, and as a woman of colour I find the likening of my feminism to racism deeply misguided at best. Please think about what you’re actually implying.

I have thought, thank you.

Most people don't like being called bigots. If we waited to find people who actively welcomed the term, we'd be waiting a while, wouldn't we?

RoseslnTheHospital · 08/02/2022 21:50

I am quite clearly referring to people who support this ideology and their attitudes. Not whether there are places online where people who don't support the ideology are permitted to discuss it.

anon12345678901 · 08/02/2022 21:51

I believe there's only two genders and you cannot change it, it's what I teach my child and it's what all my friends and family teach theirs. I wouldn't play along with a schizophrenics delusion and I'm not doing it if someone believes they've suddenly changed gender overnight or feel like a cat.

Innocenta · 08/02/2022 21:53

Yes, sorry, @RoseslnTheHospital - I do actually agree with you that it shouldn't be coercive. I think that's worrying and goes too far into policing others.

SarahAndQuack · 08/02/2022 21:53

@RoseslnTheHospital

I am quite clearly referring to people who support this ideology and their attitudes. Not whether there are places online where people who don't support the ideology are permitted to discuss it.
Well, as I say, you'll find both perspectives in the Guardian. I admit, if you're not anti-trans you'll find less in FWR, but maybe twitter would be better?

I had assumed you were wanting places where it was possible to discuss anti-trans attitudes. If so, then the world is really your oyster.

UoMomster · 08/02/2022 21:53

I know what you mean OP I work in HE and am on constant alert with my language etc (I teach a lot of sex based practical things eg medical interventions for womens health) and have to be so so careful. However I have a 5 year old and we live in a very trendy crunchy area and her reception call are very GIRLS vs BOYS and exactly how I remember being at school (not saying that’s ideal either!). Dreading her getting older and having to go into pronouns etc.

Innocenta · 08/02/2022 21:55

@SarahAndQuack I'm a lesbian too, most definitely not anti-trans, but that doesn't mean I agree 100% with the current orthodoxies of some self designated thought leaders in the 'TQ' part of the umbrella. I honestly believe it should be possible to care about women's rights and trans rights.

BlackMagicWimpund · 08/02/2022 21:55

I have thought, thank you.

Yes, like a first-year undergraduate, at best. Protecting women’s rights = bigotry.

OK then Hmm

Suzi888 · 08/02/2022 21:56

@ButtockUp

I've nothing to add except to say that I get what you're saying. I feel too old and my brain almost hurts with all of this.
Agree with buttockUp I know I’ll end up being old and inappropriate Confused
RoseslnTheHospital · 08/02/2022 21:58

@SarahAndQuack I'm talking about the attitudes of some of the people who believe in gender ideology. As evidenced by some posters posting on this thread. No debate is allowed. Responses are all thought terminating cliches and accusations of intolerance or hate.

DdraigGoch · 08/02/2022 21:58

Well, as I say, you'll find both perspectives in the Guardian. I admit, if you're not anti-trans you'll find less in FWR, but maybe twitter would be better?

I had assumed you were wanting places where it was possible to discuss anti-trans attitudes. If so, then the world is really your oyster.

@SarahAndQuack posters in FWR are not "anti-trans", they are pro-women & children's safety and dignity. Indeed there are a number of transwomen who post occasionally on the FWR board to agree with the women on there that the extreme activities of the TRAs are causing real harm.

Justgorgeous · 08/02/2022 21:58

It’s a very small minority. Ignore and carry on.

Scianel · 08/02/2022 21:59

are prepared to admit your ignorance and apologise if you get something wrong

No. I'm not ignorant, I'm not going to validate anyone's gender woo and I'm not going to grovel.

SarahAndQuack · 08/02/2022 22:00

[quote Innocenta]@SarahAndQuack I'm a lesbian too, most definitely not anti-trans, but that doesn't mean I agree 100% with the current orthodoxies of some self designated thought leaders in the 'TQ' part of the umbrella. I honestly believe it should be possible to care about women's rights and trans rights. [/quote]
Absolutely.

SarahAndQuack · 08/02/2022 22:02

@DdraigGoch

Well, as I say, you'll find both perspectives in the Guardian. I admit, if you're not anti-trans you'll find less in FWR, but maybe twitter would be better?

I had assumed you were wanting places where it was possible to discuss anti-trans attitudes. If so, then the world is really your oyster.

@SarahAndQuack posters in FWR are not "anti-trans", they are pro-women & children's safety and dignity. Indeed there are a number of transwomen who post occasionally on the FWR board to agree with the women on there that the extreme activities of the TRAs are causing real harm.

The general tone of FWR is anti-trans, though. There used to be a good balance of posters interested in women's rights, but on the whole, people have stopped posting because of the overwhelming mania for discussing trans issues.
babyjellyfish · 08/02/2022 22:02

Good grief, are you serious…cross-dressing, just wow.

If you think it's more than that then I'd love to know what you think it is.

WallaceinAnderland · 08/02/2022 22:06

DD's best friend (female) transitioned. She had a double mastectomy and stated lifelong drugs that make her infertile. All this by the age of 21. I could weep.

LorelaiDeservedBetter · 08/02/2022 22:07

I'm angry about the attack on women's rights. I'm not overwhelmed by it.
I've been campaigning on women's issues for years. There's always a new front on the war on women.
As for pronouns, etc, I have a teen so it is a topic of conversation in our house because it's rife in certain groups in school.
But teens and students have always thought they were way more fascinating than everyone else and that they're the first to ever experience anything. It's just now they use letters and pronouns to try to carve out their specialness. Our generation rejected labels. They embrace them. I just hope they can steer through without medication, surgery and an adverse impact on their MH.

woodhill · 08/02/2022 22:07

Yes, give the teenagers time to become adults. Very sad

Momicrone · 08/02/2022 22:07

Anon123, you do realise that your children will eventually grow up to make their own decisions about their lives, bodies, sexuality, gender?

Woofwoofbarkbark · 08/02/2022 22:08

The teenage boy next door has had 3 different pronouns since Christmas! His mum told me not to try and keep up! He's very popular on tik tock apparently. So that's important.