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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to feel overwhelmed by non-binary, cancel culture, and woke society?

683 replies

FordSiesta · 08/02/2022 20:57

I've got to the stage where I feel quite apprehensive about the future. It just feels like there will be no 'men' or 'women' or 'boys' and 'girls' and everyone will need to conform to various gender identities and have to remember all the different ways people identify so as not to accidently offend anyone. I'm supportive of transgender people and understand people changing from male to female or vice versa but now there's all this non-binary stuff it's getting confusing.

All these things going on in this 'woke society' and if you aren't seen as wanting to conform with all this new stuff then the 'cancel culture' comes at you.

I just feel like I would be happy if there wasn't so much pressure placed on people to get pronouns correct if for millions of years we've used he/him and she/her and now we need to say they/them when we were taught in school they/them was plural.

I don't have kids yet but I do wonder if I did what the world would be like for them growing up.

AIBU for wanting to just continue with two genders?

OP posts:
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5
WouldBeGood · 08/02/2022 22:08

There are two sexes.

The rest is just self indulgent imo. Each to their own, but don’t try to force everyone else into the belief system.

People are free to wear and do what they choose. No need to conform to stereotypes.

YANBU.

SarahAndQuack · 08/02/2022 22:09

@BlackMagicWimpund

I have thought, thank you.

Yes, like a first-year undergraduate, at best. Protecting women’s rights = bigotry.

OK then Hmm

No. Protecting women's rights is crucial.

But, you must know that there's a long history here. In first and second wave feminism, straight feminists used the exact same arguments we're seeing here, to exclude lesbian feminists, women of colour, working class women, and unmarried mothers.

I am quite sure that the second wave feminists who believed in a 'lavender menace' genuinely felt afraid and under attack. I am quite sure they thought those lesbians were attacking women's rights.

milkyaqua · 08/02/2022 22:09

It's a nightmare. 1984, Brave New World... I wonder when we get to wake up from this nonsense and the cruelty imposed on those who don't pander to it ends.

babyjellyfish · 08/02/2022 22:10

In first and second wave feminism, straight feminists used the exact same arguments we're seeing here, to exclude lesbian feminists, women of colour, working class women, and unmarried mothers.

All of those people were female though.

Feminism is supposed to include all female people. It's not supposed to include male people.

user1471443411 · 08/02/2022 22:10

Where I am confused is the 'non-binary' label. I thought it referred to people who didn't want their sex to be too apparent, so dressing androynously, women with short hair, men with long hair and make up (but not dresses) etc. However, I've seen the term used on mn and other places to refer to trans people as well, ie people going on cross sex hormones, puberty blockers and females having mastectomies.
In real life, I don't come across it much as I live in a very unwoke place.

SarahAndQuack · 08/02/2022 22:12

@babyjellyfish

In first and second wave feminism, straight feminists used the exact same arguments we're seeing here, to exclude lesbian feminists, women of colour, working class women, and unmarried mothers.

All of those people were female though.

Feminism is supposed to include all female people. It's not supposed to include male people.

But you are saying this with the benefit of hindsight. You're saying yes, those second wave feminists were wrong to think lesbians were not real women.

But isn't it possible they really believed that?

Furbulousnous · 08/02/2022 22:13

Take a deep breath. It’s not quite the end of days that you’re envisaging.

milkyaqua · 08/02/2022 22:13

You're saying yes, those second wave feminists were wrong to think lesbians were not real women. But isn't it possible they really believed that?

No.

JudgeJ · 08/02/2022 22:14

@Innocenta

Think you're mixing up gender and sex, *@FelicityBeedle* ! I agree, we should definitely make an effort to remember people's genders and preferred pronouns. It's an important part of identity for many people. My sole issue with it is when it gets into confusion about actual biological sexes.
If people want a specific, not obvious 'pronoun' then let them wear a badge, otherwise it's he/she from me! Now I know why the Germans have der, die und das, presumably das can be used for the 'non-binary- people. The only thing I recognise as binary is the simplest counting system.
DerAlteMann · 08/02/2022 22:14

I think that, in the long term, the answer "What do I care if you're offended?" is going to be heard more and more often. The long-term result will not be mutual tolerance and understanding rather it will be mutual indifference.

Melroses · 08/02/2022 22:14

@WallaceinAnderland

DD's best friend (female) transitioned. She had a double mastectomy and stated lifelong drugs that make her infertile. All this by the age of 21. I could weep.
I know Sad. A friend's daughter is doing this, and is not even 'transitioning' as she is non-binary. I don't know why all identities lead to mastectomy. Another friend's son is 'questioning his gender'.

Also, nephew is taking hormones and no doubt will be surgically infertile before long. Wants to use the same name as DD.

Momicrone · 08/02/2022 22:15

With the high prevalence of mental heath issues amongst young people, I support anything that keeps them sane. I'd rather they experiment with genders/pronouns than self harm, depression or worse.

Innocenta · 08/02/2022 22:15

@JudgeJ A lot of people with uncommon pronouns actually do wear badges! I wouldn't be comfortable with it myself, but if it suits them... Okay!

babyjellyfish · 08/02/2022 22:16

But you are saying this with the benefit of hindsight. You're saying yes, those second wave feminists were wrong to think lesbians were not real women.

But isn't it possible they really believed that?

I can't comment on what they believed.

What I do know is that, if trans women are women, I have no idea what a woman actually is or whether I am one or not, or what the word for female people is.

If you believe trans women are women then you believe the feelings of male people should be prioritised over the rights, safety, dignity and opportunities of female people.

I don't see how that can be reconciled with feminism.

NowtSalamander · 08/02/2022 22:16

Sarah are you supporting the active harm being done to young women, including lesbians, autistic girls, rape victims, that I can see every day at my school? Because these girls are transitioning and planning a medicalised future. I listened to an experienced sexologist on a podcast yesterday who said, amongst other things, that being on cross-sex hormones their whole lives would take away 20 years of their life.

I understand a teenager caught up in a trend not understanding the law of unintended consequences. I don’t understand an adult woman who claims to think that people who oppose this are being bigoted.

bakebeans · 08/02/2022 22:16

I hear you. I’m fed up with it and god forbid you dare to have a difference of opinion with someone of a different sex, colour, religion, beliefs!

JudgeJ · 08/02/2022 22:17

@Hasselhoffsheadband

Good grief, are you serious…cross-dressing, just wow.

Cross dressers come under the 'trans umbrella' according to Stonewall.

Would that be Stonewall Jackson?
StScholastica · 08/02/2022 22:17

[quote SarahAndQuack]@StScholastica - yes, sorry, I thought it was obvious!

I'm a lesbian; I am not even a tiny bit trying to suggest it's ok to dismiss lesbians as women trying to be men, or say homosexuality is too confusing to accept. But that's the sort of thing people have said (and do say) to legitimise homophobia.

Likewise, speaking out against 'woke society' just sounds like someone trying to excuse being racist.[/quote]
Thank you for replying and clarifying.
I did hope you weren't being serious! but I dont think I was the only one confused by your post as it wasnt me who reported it.
Glad we are on the same page anyway. Flowers

Ballcactus · 08/02/2022 22:18

This stance is ignorant. It’s really not that hard. Gender is a social construct, use the pronouns that the person wants you to.

ArcheryAnnie · 08/02/2022 22:18

@littleowls83

I think you've been reading the Daily Mail. In real life so long as you make a decent effort to get pronouns and terminology right and are prepared to admit your ignorance and apologise if you get something wrong then an accidental slip up isn't a disaster and you don't get 'cancelled'. Being kind to people and respectful of their beliefs and identify isn't a new thing.
This is amazing. "As long as you do everything you are instructed to, question nothing, and grovel in the approved manner if you have the temerity to be caught not complying, you will be fine. Other people are allowed their identities and beliefs, just not you."
FrankieBoyleSezLoveOneAnother · 08/02/2022 22:19

@blublub

It’s just the latest fad. We’ll have real problems soon, aside from navel gazing, like if we can eat or possibly war. This will help put things in perspective for those whose lives are in a bubble in their own head.
You must be a riot at parties.
flintstonewall · 08/02/2022 22:19

I'm a female (biological female, born female or whatever you want to call it), from a marginalised group myself. Two marginalised groups actually. I used to be a sex worker, and I have alopecia.

I am also a bit confused with all the pronouns and stuff and just try to be kind and respectful to everyone I meet. I am a bit baffled though.

My main concern though, is that people will keep voting in the Tories and enable them to continue with the policies which cause poverty and suffering - mainly to WOMEN, because of "other parties don't know what a woman is" .. meanwhile the Tories throw single parents, single parent students, older unemployed women, disabled women, and women carers under a bus!!

SarahAndQuack · 08/02/2022 22:20

@milkyaqua

You're saying yes, those second wave feminists were wrong to think lesbians were not real women. But isn't it possible they really believed that?

No.

Why not? Lesbian rights were a major issue for second wave feminism. There was intense discussion over whether lesbianism was compatible with feminism.
milkyaqua · 08/02/2022 22:20

@Ballcactus

This stance is ignorant. It’s really not that hard. Gender is a social construct, use the pronouns that the person wants you to.
“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

MRS54321 · 08/02/2022 22:21

I will not refer to myself or any other woman as “cis” or “ person who menstruates”
Or I’m going to start calling Men “people who ejaculate sperm from their penises” or equally ridiculous
I also found it offensive to be referred to as a pregnant person, rather than a woman.

You have the right to be /or refer to yourself as whatever the fuck YOU want- doesn’t bother me BUT don’t take away my right to be referred to ,as what I am : a woman.