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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to feel overwhelmed by non-binary, cancel culture, and woke society?

683 replies

FordSiesta · 08/02/2022 20:57

I've got to the stage where I feel quite apprehensive about the future. It just feels like there will be no 'men' or 'women' or 'boys' and 'girls' and everyone will need to conform to various gender identities and have to remember all the different ways people identify so as not to accidently offend anyone. I'm supportive of transgender people and understand people changing from male to female or vice versa but now there's all this non-binary stuff it's getting confusing.

All these things going on in this 'woke society' and if you aren't seen as wanting to conform with all this new stuff then the 'cancel culture' comes at you.

I just feel like I would be happy if there wasn't so much pressure placed on people to get pronouns correct if for millions of years we've used he/him and she/her and now we need to say they/them when we were taught in school they/them was plural.

I don't have kids yet but I do wonder if I did what the world would be like for them growing up.

AIBU for wanting to just continue with two genders?

OP posts:
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5
Balaboostah · 10/02/2022 15:19

@RoseslnTheHospital
How do you explain the Hirja in Bangladesh? are they 'woke'?

mustlovegin · 10/02/2022 15:19

In real life so long as you make a decent effort to get pronouns and terminology right and are prepared to admit your ignorance and apologise if you get something wrong then an accidental slip up isn't a disaster and you don't get 'cancelled'

What does this even mean?

Who has legitimised a few groups to dictate what is 'correct terminology' and 'right think' (and the punishment they are supposed to inflict on others if they don't comply)?

Ignorance is not the same as disagreement.

An increasing number of people seem to be irritated by the perpetual self-flagellators who are too scared to think for themselves and speak their mind.

babyjellyfish · 10/02/2022 15:20

@Momicrone

If a son of mine wanted to wear a dress or a daughter wanted to reject her feminity, as parents what are we supposed to do? Anger and rejection ain't going to get us very far.
If my son wanted to wear a dress or my daughter didn't want to be stereotypically feminine I would make it clear that they were free to express themselves however they wanted, but these things do not have anything to do with being a man or a woman.
Balaboostah · 10/02/2022 15:20

@babyjellyfish

If a woman has her uterus removed, is she a woman then? If childbearing is what defines a woman.

lifeturnsonadime · 10/02/2022 15:22

@Momicrone

If a son of mine wanted to wear a dress or a daughter wanted to reject her feminity, as parents what are we supposed to do? Anger and rejection ain't going to get us very far.
My daughter does reject feminine stereotypes.

I'm neither angry nor rejecting her. Instead I've told her that there are lots of ways to be a woman and that it is absolutely fine to be a girl who rejects stereotypes.

Happily she seems oblivious, for now, to the social conditioning that is going on on social media and elsewhere that rejecting stereotypes (femininity) means she must be a trans person.

I think it is very interesting that you acknowledge that this is all about stereotypes. Very interesting.

RoseslnTheHospital · 10/02/2022 15:22

@Momicrone

If a son of mine wanted to wear a dress or a daughter wanted to reject her feminity, as parents what are we supposed to do? Anger and rejection ain't going to get us very far.
Why would you think that people here would be angry and reject a son for wearing a dress or a daughter for rejecting femininity? Many women posting here reject femininity, I did as soon as I was aware of the different ways girls and boys were treated when I was a young child (several decades ago now). I couldn't care less if one of my sons wanted to wear a dress either.
TheKeatingFive · 10/02/2022 15:22

But I also accept that biological sex isn't as well defined as you seem to think.

But that's rubbish. In 99.999% of cases sex is clearly identified by a glance at the body. In some rare cases it isn't, but can be determined by DNA.

lifeturnsonadime · 10/02/2022 15:23

[quote Balaboostah]@babyjellyfish

If a woman has her uterus removed, is she a woman then? If childbearing is what defines a woman.[/quote]
Crikey this argument is so stupid.

Males can never have children. Women have the reproductive capability but sometimes that fails them or they chose not to. They are still women.

TheKeatingFive · 10/02/2022 15:23

If a son of mine wanted to wear a dress or a daughter wanted to reject her feminity, as parents what are we supposed to do? Anger and rejection ain't going to get us very far.

Why would I have a problem with either of those things?

babyjellyfish · 10/02/2022 15:23

[quote Balaboostah]@babyjellyfish

If a woman has her uterus removed, is she a woman then? If childbearing is what defines a woman.[/quote]
If she had a uterus in the first place then she is quite obviously a woman. This isn't quite the "gotcha" that you seem to think it is.

Hmm
FOJN · 10/02/2022 15:24

If a woman has her uterus removed, is she a woman then? If childbearing is what defines a woman.

Not all women can or do give birth but only women can and do give birth. Women who can't or choose not to have babies are not men.

Helleofabore · 10/02/2022 15:24

But I also accept that biological sex isn't as well defined as you seem to think.

I look forward to a fuller explanation for this. Please explain why sex is not well defined.

RoseslnTheHospital · 10/02/2022 15:25

[quote Balaboostah]@RoseslnTheHospital
How do you explain the Hirja in Bangladesh? are they 'woke'?[/quote]
I haven't mentioned "woke" at all, so I'm not sure what you're asking me here or what the relevance of hirja people in Bangladesh is.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 10/02/2022 15:25

As a childless woman I can’t tell you
Much I love TRA using my infertility due to my dysfunctional biology to imply I must be on a par with a TW

Fuck off with that nonsense!! I can’t give birth because my female biology doesn’t work properly not cos I’m
A fucking man

Helleofabore · 10/02/2022 15:26

[quote Balaboostah]@babyjellyfish

If a woman has her uterus removed, is she a woman then? If childbearing is what defines a woman.[/quote]
Holy fuck!!!

Are you seriously using a woman’s medical condition to destabilise sec categories? Do you realize how offensive that is?

Balaboostah · 10/02/2022 15:26

My colleague who transitioned is very much a man. That's the correct gender for him. But he could (in theory) give birth.

Helleofabore · 10/02/2022 15:28

Balaboostah

So they are still female and always will be female. No changing sex has happened

babyjellyfish · 10/02/2022 15:28

@Balaboostah

My colleague who transitioned is very much a man. That's the correct gender for him. But he could (in theory) give birth.
What do you actually believe a man is?
Balaboostah · 10/02/2022 15:28

What? Why is that offensive in the slightest. Of course she's still a woman. Since a uterus or ability to bear children or ovaries or whatever does not define womanhood.

babyjellyfish · 10/02/2022 15:28

@Theeyeballsinthesky

As a childless woman I can’t tell you Much I love TRA using my infertility due to my dysfunctional biology to imply I must be on a par with a TW

Fuck off with that nonsense!! I can’t give birth because my female biology doesn’t work properly not cos I’m
A fucking man

Hear hear. Wine
TheKeatingFive · 10/02/2022 15:28

My colleague who transitioned is very much a man. That's the correct gender for him. But he could (in theory) give birth.

No she's not a man.

She doesn't align with female stereotypes and wants to distance herself from them. Which is fine.

babyjellyfish · 10/02/2022 15:29

@Balaboostah

What? Why is that offensive in the slightest. Of course she's still a woman. Since a uterus or ability to bear children or ovaries or whatever does not define womanhood.
Being female defines womanhood though.

And the difference between male and female is, quite simply, what type of reproductive system you have.

TheKeatingFive · 10/02/2022 15:29

Since a uterus or ability to bear children or ovaries or whatever does not define womanhood.

DNA does

FOJN · 10/02/2022 15:30

If a son of mine wanted to wear a dress or a daughter wanted to reject her feminity, as parents what are we supposed to do? Anger and rejection ain't going to get us very far.

Is this a serious question? Boys and girls do not owe the world conformity to outdated stereotypes. If a son wanted to wear a dress or if a daughter wanted to reject feminity I'd think I'd done a good job in giving them the confdence to be themselves.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 10/02/2022 15:30

@Balaboostah

My colleague who transitioned is very much a man. That's the correct gender for him. But he could (in theory) give birth.
Nope they’re still female. They still have the pelvis on the right rather than the one on the left which is why you know they could give birth

Their gender may be male but their sex is female

AIBU to feel overwhelmed by non-binary, cancel culture, and woke society?
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