AIBU to feel overwhelmed by non-binary, cancel culture, and woke society?

[FordSiesta]

I've got to the stage where I feel quite apprehensive about the future. It just feels like there will be no 'men' or 'women' or 'boys' and 'girls' and everyone will need to conform to various gender identities and have to remember all the different ways people identify so as not to accidently offend anyone. I'm supportive of transgender people and understand people changing from male to female or vice versa but now there's all this non-binary stuff it's getting confusing.

All these things going on in this 'woke society' and if you aren't seen as wanting to conform with all this new stuff then the 'cancel culture' comes at you.

I just feel like I would be happy if there wasn't so much pressure placed on people to get pronouns correct if for millions of years we've used he/him and she/her and now we need to say they/them when we were taught in school they/them was plural.

I don't have kids yet but I do wonder if I did what the world would be like for them growing up.

AIBU for wanting to just continue with two genders?

So the only person denying that you are a woman is yourself. That's ridiculous.

The rest of us will continue to use the word woman.

What does the word actually MEAN, if not "female person"?

I have no shared gender identity with trans women.

If "woman" is no longer a word that means female people and is now a word for people with the "gender identity" of "woman", including trans women, then it's not actually a word that applies to me.

I resent being forced into some sort of shared identity with people I have nothing in common with - particularly when they want to use this identity that only they actually have to justify being able to use women's changing rooms, be house in women's prisons or compete in women's sports - and denied the vocabulary to describe myself as what I am: a female person.

A trans woman can be a woman as well. Another person using the term does not change who I am.

If every man in the world identified as a woman it wouldn't change who I am, that is not and has never been the arguement. Including men, which transwomen are, in the category woman redefines what a woman is and that matters in many areas of life.

There was a person on Twitter Nig Heke who compiled lots of footage of "women" wanking off in female toilets some where children's voices can be heard. Stop sticking up for perverted literal wankers and learn about autogynephelia.

A trans woman can be a woman as well. Another person using the term does not change who I am.

Well it does if the word woman has been completely redefined as a feeling in a man's head.

When I was early teens Flower Power became the thing, Peace and free love in the US, drugs, long hair, loud rock music. We knew what the world needed, we were cooooool.

My poor DF fought in the war, my DM had a supportive role in the war - here were these selfish scruffy 'long haired louts" telling everyone about PEACE - I'm sure my DP's generation were aghast at it. How could those hippies not see how offensive their Peace Man antics were to people who'd fought in the second world war and lost many friends and family in it.

Anyway, some hippies remain in their tepees in rural Wales, some rock stars are still going strong - but the rest of us - we just grew up and got on with life. And the same will happen with this gender stuff.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Another person using the term does not change who I am Exactly

It does change your standing and protections in laws and regulations though. It changes your position in society. It changes the way society will work for you.

Take womens sports. If women sports is now an open category for everyone, the whole reason for a separate category is gone. Women will not win or even get to elite level.

Take discrimination because of your sex. How can you argue you are discriminated against because of your sex is the laws no longer recognize your sex is different than a male persons?

Take measures and statistics about the difference between the sexes, like the pay gap. You can't measure it anymore if there is no definable category that registers and acknowledges your sex.

This is what the issue is with including men in the category of woman. It just will not work and make women even more invisible than they already are

Anyway, some hippies remain in their tepees in rural Wales, some rock stars are still going strong - but the rest of us - we just grew up and got on with life. And the same will happen with this gender stuff.

Not before women have lost their right to single sex spaces and huge numbers of young people have been irreparably harmed.

Not before women have lost their right to single sex spaces and huge numbers of young people have been irreparably harmed.

And the overton window has moved so far now I don't think we'll get back to where it was 10 years ago in my life time.

And the overton window has moved so far now I don't think we'll get back to where it was 10 years ago in my life time.

Unless there is a huge backlash, perhaps.

@Toanewstart23

Dread to think what you wrote *@VelvetChairGirl*

Been on the vodka?!

I wrote that it is a fad that will be gone within ten years

@mantlepiece

I’m in my 60’s. I firmly believe you are either male or female. I can’t see how anyone can say differently. However, I do think people like to express themselves in different ways. If we were all the same it would be a very boring world. In my younger days although homosexuality was legal, if people overtly expressed it, I do think they experienced hostility in certain situations. Times have moved on and for example I have a DN that feels perfectly at ease with their homosexuality and is free to express that in a public way and experience very little negativity because of it.

Therefore, although the recent upsurge in the numbers of trans people seems disconcerting to me, and also the language around dealing with it, I reference my feelings towards it by remembering the homosexual people I encountered in my younger days.

People find change difficult but they get there in the end. Trans people will become more mainstream just like homosexuals have.

I have to admit though it pains me to hear of young people having breasts, penis’ and testicles cut off. I suppose the more common it becomes though we will get used to it.

I just think I do me so I can’t complain if you do you.

I agree. I also am in my 60’s. I have no problem with anyone wanting to be whatever they wish but very young people mutilating their bodies is scary. What happens if you change your mind as you grow older.

@Kidsfortea Go on Reddit Detrans to find out. Depressing reading.

Anyway, some hippies remain in their tepees in rural Wales, some rock stars are still going strong - but the rest of us - we just grew up and got on with life. And the same will happen with this gender stuff.

I assumed this would happen but a lot of this stuff isn't coming from the kids - it's come via their schools, their youth groups very top down and there seems to be money interest behind some of it.

Also at time when violence aginst women is at really high levels and convictions still really low - single sex spaces are incredingly under attack or quietly disappearing.

Plus it is appearing in many workplaces - some industries publishing and charity sectors seem rife with it and witch hunts seem to focus on any women who dare to speak out.

To answer questions, they are 20, 25 and 27. And no, I don't think transwomen are taking our space, they are women too.

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash

To answer questions, they are 20, 25 and 27. And no, I don't think transwomen are taking our space, they are women too.

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash A person with a penis and testicles is not a woman!

Muslim women have a right to be in a spa without seeing male genitals. This is common sense.

Domestic violence and rape survivors have a right to be in a spa without seeing male genitals. This is common sense.

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash

To answer questions, they are 20, 25 and 27. And no, I don't think transwomen are taking our space, they are women too.

In what sense are they women?

What is your understanding of what a woman is?

When I say I am a woman, I mean I am a female person. If the word "woman" is now a gender identity which includes male people, it is meaningless to me. If I want to identify myself purely by reference to my biological sex (which I do), I can no longer do that

babyjellyfish I used to just think it might be simpler to refer to myself as female. But that seems to cause upset, because this apparently is antagonistic.

I find it amazing that the trans lobby not only want the right to label themselves but they expect me to accept the identity they impose on me.

So, no I am a woman. A man is not a woman. A man can not be both a woman and a man. A man is always a man. A man can not be both a trans woman and a woman. I am not both a woman and a ciss woman (or on their bidding just a ciss woman). There is no logical coherence. A trans woman will always be a man transitioning (or in many cases not) to a be a trans woman. He can never become a woman, which is why he is so angry at women. Its interesting to me that trans activists have taken both the label trans (when it suits their political agenda) and woman when it suits their delusion. They are aware that I am a woman and I am unlike them in some really fundamental unalterable way and so in order for them to be women, I have to give up the identity woman. So I won't. And if I did then the identity woman would become an empty signifier, completely devoid of any meaning, even for them.

For me its a bit like getting on a train and instead of willingly giving your seat to the vulnerable instead some arsehole drags you out the seat and shouts in your face when you protest, and then demands he wants two seats when you were only occupying one!

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash A person with a penis and testicles is not a woman!

Muslim women have a right to be in a spa without seeing male genitals. This is common sense.

Domestic violence and rape survivors have a right to be in a spa without seeing male genitals. This is common sense.

All women and girls have a right to be in their own single sex spaces without seeing male genitals.

But yes, those women and girls are the most likely to self-exclude from their own single sex spaces if the absence of male genitals cannot be guaranteed.

Those women and girls are the kind of people "intersectional feminism" was supposed to be about. Not male people.

@MiniTheMinx

When I say I am a woman, I mean I am a female person. If the word "woman" is now a gender identity which includes male people, it is meaningless to me. If I want to identify myself purely by reference to my biological sex (which I do), I can no longer do that

babyjellyfish I used to just think it might be simpler to refer to myself as female. But that seems to cause upset, because this apparently is antagonistic.

I find it amazing that the trans lobby not only want the right to label themselves but they expect me to accept the identity they impose on me.

So, no I am a woman. A man is not a woman. A man can not be both a woman and a man. A man is always a man. A man can not be both a trans woman and a woman. I am not both a woman and a ciss woman (or on their bidding just a ciss woman). There is no logical coherence. A trans woman will always be a man transitioning (or in many cases not) to a be a trans woman. He can never become a woman, which is why he is so angry at women. Its interesting to me that trans activists have taken both the label trans (when it suits their political agenda) and woman when it suits their delusion. They are aware that I am a woman and I am unlike them in some really fundamental unalterable way and so in order for them to be women, I have to give up the identity woman. So I won't. And if I did then the identity woman would become an empty signifier, completely devoid of any meaning, even for them.

For me its a bit like getting on a train and instead of willingly giving your seat to the vulnerable instead some arsehole drags you out the seat and shouts in your face when you protest, and then demands he wants two seats when you were only occupying one!

Referring to yourself as female doesn't get round the issue because apparently female is a gender identity too.

A lot of trans women say they are female.

Even the bloody Gender Recognition Act, which is getting on for 20 years old, uses the words "male" and "female" to refer to genders.

No matter that in all other mammals the word "female" means the sex that gestates, gives birth to and breastfeeds young, and in birds, fish and reptiles it means the sex that lays eggs.

Apparently in humans it means people whose favourite colour is pink.

And this goes to show that we might as well just fight tooth and nail for the word "woman", because it doesn't matter what word we want to use to mean "biologically female people", as sure as ova are ova, some men are going to start "identifying as" that too.

@FateHasRedesignedMost

Being expected to use ‘they’ annoys me as it’s grammatically incorrect and suggests plural, which is confusing eg in medical notes.

I remember a patient telling me off for addressing my group of women as ‘ladies’ in a therapy session. She was non binary but on a female ward by choice. Addressing them as ‘people’ sounded cold and a bit disrespectful compared to ladies.

This is the problem! Attempting to control language, that the HUGE majority are absolutely fine with, and forcing people to pander to a minority view.

I don’t care for the word ladies either, but I’m not particularly offended by it.

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash

To answer questions, they are 20, 25 and 27. And no, I don't think transwomen are taking our space, they are women too.

Except they're not. They're men.

If every man in the world identified as a woman it wouldn't change who I am, that is not and has never been the arguement. Including men, which transwomen are, in the category woman redefines what a woman is and that matters in many areas of life.

This.

@babyjellyfish

Just because they wouldn't have access to their medication, doesn't mean they would stop existing.

Quite. So perhaps they should think twice about the wisdom of undergoing medical transition when all they are doing is making cosmetic changes to their bodies (at risk to their health) which do not actually change their sex, given that access to the drugs and follow up surgery they need cannot be guaranteed for their entire life span.

Imagine what encouraging large numbers of young people to demand lifelong medication and serious surgery (with unknown future adverse health consequences) will do to the NHS. Plus all the fertility treatment they will want/need when they realise that they'd rather not be infertile. Plus the cost of paying compensation when the negligence claims start being brought. I assume that those of you in favour are happy to A) go to the bottom of a very long waiting list for your own medical treatment, B) fund this out of increased tax, 3) lose the NHS?

@NannyOggsWhiskyStash

To answer questions, they are 20, 25 and 27. And no, I don't think transwomen are taking our space, they are women too.

What is a woman? How are trans women, women? Are women, trans women?

If not, why not?