AIBU to feel overwhelmed by non-binary, cancel culture, and woke society?

[FordSiesta]

I've got to the stage where I feel quite apprehensive about the future. It just feels like there will be no 'men' or 'women' or 'boys' and 'girls' and everyone will need to conform to various gender identities and have to remember all the different ways people identify so as not to accidently offend anyone. I'm supportive of transgender people and understand people changing from male to female or vice versa but now there's all this non-binary stuff it's getting confusing.

All these things going on in this 'woke society' and if you aren't seen as wanting to conform with all this new stuff then the 'cancel culture' comes at you.

I just feel like I would be happy if there wasn't so much pressure placed on people to get pronouns correct if for millions of years we've used he/him and she/her and now we need to say they/them when we were taught in school they/them was plural.

I don't have kids yet but I do wonder if I did what the world would be like for them growing up.

AIBU for wanting to just continue with two genders?

Anon123, you're slightly missing the point, your son is your son, and you both are on the same page, I am talking in general, parents can't control their kids thoughts

@Purplependant222

Non-binary is rejecting gender stereotypes/norms associated with identifying as male/female.

Gender is a social construct therefore it’s not how someone outwardly expresses themselves/genitalia but how they most identify.

"Sexism = the women should do the dishes. Feminism = men or women can do the dishes. Gender ideology = whoever is doing the dishes is a woman."

Basically no wonder smart young girls are rejecting traditional female stereotypical gender ideologies to becoming non-binary. And those who want to wear dresses are identifying as female as somehow a man still cant wear makeup/or a dress without being a girl.

Remove gender stereotypes you’ve got equality.

Abolish gender altogether and you're left with sex stereotypes. Care to explain what's particularly smart about identifying as NB when this trend can lead to irreversible surgeries? It's deep internalised misogyny and it's better to accept you're a woman who doesn't want to conform to stereotypes than unsuccessfully try to reject your womanhood.

For anyone saying, it's just pronouns, be kind or this is a tiny number of people, what's the harm - it clearly is an issue and is harmful. we have male bodied people in sports and womens a prisons. Like the OP, I can't help worry for future generations - I have in recent weeks been made aware that aside for wanting to identify with the opposite sex, and I firmly believe people with true GD, need to be supported, we now have people that are getting nullification surgery, so getting rid or all genitals, I mean how is this even allowed and what does the future look like, I find the whole thing very unsettling and can't wait for the moment when there have been enough cases or young people suing that as a society, we go 'what on earth were we thinking, why didn't we help these people deal with their issues in a different way' but maybe ive gone from a liberal leftie to a right wing bigot (in a matter of a couple of years) as is routinely suggested on Twitter and various other places.

@Momicrone

Anon123, you're slightly missing the point, your son is your son, and you both are on the same page, I am talking in general, parents can't control their kids thoughts

So my son is my son and we're on the same page so that's the point I was making to you when you first started. My son also shares my beliefs in that womens rights must be protected, that won't change. Other peoples children are not anything to do with me.

@Momicrone

Agathamystery, sorry I should clarify, I did not mean going down the route of medical intervention, I meant experimenting with pronouns/genders/categorising etc. It may be a phase, it may not, but if it keeps the child away from depression and suicidal thoughts, through the tumultuous teenage years, I support it.

Gotcha.

There is an overwhelming body of research to suggest that affirming the deluded fantasies of these teenagers causes more harm and an increase in suicidal ideation than simply not affirming. Watchful waiting.

When did agreeing to delusions and becoming an active participant become a treatment?

Going back to my point that this is not nearly so prevalent in private schools as in state system….

These tweens and teens have too much bloody time on their hands!

My two (late primary and early secondary) and my nieces (teens) are all at private school and they’re so busy…. Sport, sport, sport, performing arts, DofE, homework, much longer hours at school.

They simply don’t have time for this kind of navel gazing. And so much the better for it.

Extend school hours, ramp up sport and matches and performing arts etc… and teens will be so much happier, preoccupied and less time to focus on twaddle like this

I think the problem is the media - all of it and it's desperate need to make money from advertising.

To make money it needs clicks - so what do they post - the most controversial, wierd, pushy stuff they can find.

Sadly our politicians are incapable of absorbing this fact and think this is the real world (the world is a BIG place, many countries, many people and many in my life don't read any of this bollox)
If it wasn't for law changes I would say ignore it and it will go away when this generation grow up (and don't have time for it) and the next generation have come up with some other thing to shock their elders.

Agathamystery, so if my kid tells me they're gay and I accept it, am I merely 'affirming a deluded fantasy'?

If we weren't in such thrall to gender stereotypes, 95% of this would go away.

I was a teenager in the 90s. There were many things that could have been improved upon that experience, but I grew up understanding there were a myriad of different ways to be a woman or to be a man.

I just don't understand why we aren't challenging gender stereotypes, rather than creating this complicated discourse around navigating them.

@AgathaMystery. Research shows that vast majority of kids with gender dysphoria will grow out of it and probably go on to be same sex attracted. The trouble starts when the parents/school "affirm" their feelings. These kids are much more likely to go on blockers and ultimately "transition"

@littleowls83

I think you've been reading the Daily Mail. In real life so long as you make a decent effort to get pronouns and terminology right and are prepared to admit your ignorance and apologise if you get something wrong then an accidental slip up isn't a disaster and you don't get 'cancelled'. Being kind to people and respectful of their beliefs and identify isn't a new thing.

Why should we be respectful of their beliefs if they're not respectful of our beliefs?

Pronouns are based on sex, and nobody should be forced to fear calling someone by the "wrong" pronoun. It's pure narcissism.

If anyone is interested in the sociological/theoretical backgrounding of all this, I recommend reading Haraway's "Cyborg Manifesto" and Debord's "Society of the Spectacle". Written in the 80s and 60s respectively, they are frighteningly prophetic about the cumulative effects of capitalism, consumerism, and mass media on our conceptions of ourselves and our bodies.

Conflating sex and gender has led to an increasingly incoherent identity politics, where a completely subjective gendered sense of self is elevated, and personality, likes and dislikes, inclinations and talents are gendered in old-fashioned, sexist ways. Meanwhile the immutability of biological sex itself is questioned with utterly dubious pseudo-science and gender theories. Critical thinking has gone out the window.

^ love this

@Momicrone

Agathamystery, so if my kid tells me they're gay and I accept it, am I merely 'affirming a deluded fantasy'?

Oh don't use that bs analogy. Being gay is real. Being able to change sex is not real. They are not even the same.

I think cancel culture has mostly peaked. People can see how toxic it is and the negative effect it's had on people's perceptions of LGBT. I know people who were big on canceling people and they've conveniently forgotten that they wished death on other people(usually women) when they had the 'wrong' opinion.

The whole gender thing I can't say I understand. A lot of it seems regressive in terms of gender roles.

It's exhausting. I also think that the whole thing is very bad for mental health - I have some good friends who are very into it (i went to a university that was 'woke' before 'woke' was even really a thing!) And the people who are most into it, are usually in a constant state of anger, upset, despair, annoyance, confusion... i rarely see positive emotions. It's always anger that everyone doesn't agree with them or fury that someone has disagreed (one thing I don't like is that if someone is even suspected of privately disagreeing with them - disagreeing in their own thoughts without actually saying anything about it - they are still furious and aggressive about it). Upset and despair for similar reasons. Confusion because they're constantly trying to desperately find the perfect labels for themselves and always looking inwards, analysing themselves, wanting to talk about themselves and their labels). Annoyance towards anyone is still living a traditional lifestyle. Almost all of them are suffering from depression and/or anxiety. I don't know which came first - the constant rage and confusion and upset about all this woke stuff, or the depression and anxiety. I think each thing feeds the other. I'm worried about it, if I'm honest. I really hope it blows over soon.

@AgathaMystery

Any condition that is diagnosed by the person afflicted and then validated by others is not okay.

Any condition that requires the validation of friends, family and absolute strangers is absolute bullshit.

I am not responsible for the mental health of anyone else. Any care plan reliant on the kindness of strangers is not well thought out and is dangerous.

Who is preparing these children for adult life, where they will meet women like me who say no, I am not prepared to join in your deluded fantasy and potentially your kink.

^this

I find this very interesting. I personally don’t care what gender anyone tells me they are. I’m one of the older gen z crowd( or youngest millennial?) and have trans friends and non binary friends. What I will say is my non binary friends seem to be very lax about it all, will go into their sex of bathrooms and actually just want me to use whichever pronoun I want. No idea how that works but hey ho if it makes them happy I don’t mind. At my age I haven’t noticed anyone actually being demanding, or extremely offended at misgendering. My trans friends might express that they’re upset family members don’t accept them, but they don’t care so much about what other people think. Mostly they don’t want to cause an argument, are generally quite nervous and wouldn’t want to upset anyone by going to the bathroom. I do find that they have to consider what they look like vs what they are in terms of sex a lot, for instance I have a trans friend that looks male, and goes by male pronouns. He finds deciding on bathrooms hard so often just avoids it or goes places that have gender neutral bathrooms.

I can tell that a few people here have children that are still young or in their teens. They’re immature. I genuinely think they will grow out of it and that the culture shift will settle down. I don’t think our future is doomed at all. Of course it is up to the adults to decide if they can have access to life changing hormones or treatment, the answer is mostly no. Therapy and the ability to express themselves is of course okay.

On the topic of sex based spaces. There is a need for it. I hope that my non binary and trans friends will be the first to open their mouths and advocate for women having sex based spaces still available. Sadly I don’t think it’s on their radar. More open discussion is needed in my generation about these issues. I will do my best to start them amongst my own group.

@Momicrone

Agathamystery, so if my kid tells me they're gay and I accept it, am I merely 'affirming a deluded fantasy'?

Yawn.

Conflating ones sexual orientation and ones gender identity is, at best, stupid.

One is the reality of who we want to fuck.

One is make believe.

[quote Noisyneighneigh]@AgathaMystery. Research shows that vast majority of kids with gender dysphoria will grow out of it and probably go on to be same sex attracted. The trouble starts when the parents/school "affirm" their feelings. These kids are much more likely to go on blockers and ultimately "transition"[/quote]
exactly.

@Momicrone

Agathamystery, so if my kid tells me they're gay and I accept it, am I merely 'affirming a deluded fantasy'?

Since when did gay people take cross sex hormones, cut off healthy body parts or want access to single sex spaces and sporting categories for the opposite sex?

@Momicrone

Agathamystery, so if my kid tells me they're gay and I accept it, am I merely 'affirming a deluded fantasy'?

FGS of course not!

That’s not remotely what anyone here is saying.

Same sex attraction is real!

Thinking anyone can be a man,nor a woman is not!

The trans Libby are trying hard to replace ‘same-sex’ attracted with ‘same-gender’ which means bugger all, and is inherently homophobic!

There is a real move to ‘Trans the gay away’ and I will fight tooth and nail to prevent this.

Conversion therapy according to the gender long is telling someone it’s ok to be same-sex attracted. How is that right? How is anybody born in the wrong body?

They’re not.

Gender lobby (not long)

@Momicrone

Anon123, it's not about changing his sex, if your son decided he was non binary, there is not alot you can do with that, you can't control his thoughts inside his head, you can force his actions possibly though

You can monitor his Internet access so that he doesn't come across batshit stuff on Tiktok.

Since when did gay people take cross sex hormones, cut off healthy body parts or want access to single sex spaces and sporting categories for the opposite sex?
Obviously the ones who accept their homosexuality don't
But quite a lot of "transgender" young people are actually just gay and they do unnecessarily chop off body parts and take cross sex hormones.